Stunt Driving Charge in Brockville (near Kingston) HELP!

[livefastdieyoung]

Hey everyone,

Got pulled over this past weekend coming back from Montreal in Brockville by OPP who supposedly "booked' me doing 153 on radar as I was about to exit the off-ramp, got charged w/ stunt driving, car impounded for 7 days, license suspended for 7 days. I've been doing my research since the incident looking for information regarding legal action (court dates in November) and lawyers and all that good stuff. From what I've read Redline is top of the list, unfortunately after talking to Forch LaRosa (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) who proceeded to talk to me for an hour giving me advice and the best way to deal with the situation it would be very expensive to have him represent me all the way out there (3-4 drive, multiple court dates, min. 4-5K). Officer wasn't too rude about it, told me I'll most likely end up with a $500-1000 fine + 4-6 demerit points + fine (22, full G license w/ clean history no charges/fines/convictions).

However, ideally I would like the charge dropped/reduced as low as possible. So I'm debating between OTT Legal and XCopper (feel free to recommend any others you've had good experiences with), was wondering if anyone has any experience with any lawyers/paralegals in the Kingston/Brockville area out East and how it turned out.

Also, from my conversation with Forch, living in Brampton secondary driver on insurance, he proposed that my insurance would likely increase between 400-600 for the year (if convicted of 49 over under the assumption most insurance companies treat all 0-49 speeding fines as minors). This has given me hope that I just need to survive the next 3 years and hopefully luck out w/ insurance not pulling an abstract.

If anyone has any experience with how dramatically insurance increased after a speeding charge (minor 0-49) please let me know. Currently debating as to whether its worth it to spend the $$$ on a lawyer who may or may not get the charge dropped or face the consequences for 1-3 years and save $$$ on a cheaper lawyer (OTT said its going to be $904).

Thanks in advance folks

 

[hedo2002]

Your chances of having the charge reduced to a speeding charge are pretty good, (unless the local crown has a current hard on for S172 charges). I know a few people who have seen it dropped to as low as 39 over, but it is not guaranteed that they will drop it. As for having it dropped completely HIGHLY unlikely unless you can show a fatal flaw, (such as the radar was operated as the courts have deemed, testing etc), that you will only discover thru your request for disclosure, (which you should file today). Officers are not likely in smaller courts to miss a court date.

You don't need to hire anyone to get it reduced. If you show up at first appearance and present well, (respectably dressed) and contrite, and ask what the crown is offering, you will be offered a "deal" on the spot, or told they are going full bore with the s172, (at which point you can still always hire someone to represent you).

Count your lucky stars, you were in your cage and not riding a sport bike, (with the recent antics in the GTA of asshats, I doubt ANY crown will be offering ANY s172 deals anytime soon).

Insurance ramifications will be the same regardless of weather your convicted of ANY speed, 0 - 49. The only BIG insurance hit would be if your convicted of s172, then it will be at least double what your currently paying if not canceled.

 

[Bike Cop]

You've got some good advice here. Your alleged speed isn't anything to write home about but you're still in the game. Foot must've slipped on the accelerator, huh?

 

[RRWiz]

the best thing to do is hush everywhere, talk to a lawyer and no one else. let him do everything.

 

[nick.shields]

I shake my head every time I see one of these threads. A young male driver doing 50 over. I'm a 19 year old male with my M2 and full G license and I'd love to participate in the hobby of riding a motorcycle, but I cannot afford the insurance while trying to get an education because people like you set a bad reputation for young male drivers.

Hope you get things sorted out.
Thank you for helping increase insurance premiums.

 

[Hyperion]

I shake my head every time I see one of these threads. A young male driver doing 50 over. I'm a 19 year old male with my M2 and full G license and I'd love to participate in the hobby of riding a motorcycle, but I cannot afford the insurance while trying to get an education because people like you set a bad reputation for young male drivers.

Hope you get things sorted out.
Thank you for helping increase insurance premiums.

Thank you for your useful insight and contribution to this topic.

 

[livefastdieyoung]

LOL forreal, b/c every other city in the world doesn't have young reckless drivers...insurance premiums ain't got nothing to do with single instances, do you research kid. btw keep driving the speed limit, it'll only get more fun when you got a family and actual responsibilities, in the meantime I'll keep enjoying my life.

 

[pfbmgd]

Your chances of having the charge reduced to a speeding charge are pretty good, (unless the local crown has a current hard on for S172 charges). I know a few people who have seen it dropped to as low as 39 over, but it is not guaranteed that they will drop it. As for having it dropped completely HIGHLY unlikely unless you can show a fatal flaw, (such as the radar was operated as the courts have deemed, testing etc), that you will only discover thru your request for disclosure, (which you should file today). Officers are not likely in smaller courts to miss a court date.

You don't need to hire anyone to get it reduced. If you show up at first appearance and present well, (respectably dressed) and contrite, and ask what the crown is offering, you will be offered a "deal" on the spot, or told they are going full bore with the s172, (at which point you can still always hire someone to represent you).

Count your lucky stars, you were in your cage and not riding a sport bike, (with the recent antics in the GTA of asshats, I doubt ANY crown will be offering ANY s172 deals anytime soon).

Insurance ramifications will be the same regardless of weather your convicted of ANY speed, 0 - 49. The only BIG insurance hit would be if your convicted of s172, then it will be at least double what your currently paying if not canceled.

Great advice . Look presentable .Ask the crown if you can plead to a lesser charge of speeding .

 

[Ron Harper]

Hey everyone,
If anyone has any experience with how dramatically insurance increased after a speeding charge (minor 0-49) please let me know. Currently debating as to whether its worth it to spend the $$$ on a lawyer who may or may not get the charge dropped or face the consequences for 1-3 years and save $$$ on a cheaper lawyer (OTT said its going to be $904).

It sounds like you've done your basic homework. To review the basics of a Stunt Driving / Race Motor vehicle offence, under HTA s.172:

"Offence(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her driver’s licence may be suspended,
(a) on a first conviction under this section, for not more than two years; or
(b) on a subsequent conviction under this section, for not more than 10 years. 2007, c. 13, s. 21."

The fine listed is the base amount issued by the court upon conviction. In addition to this fine is added the 25% victim fine surcharge. I recently wrote an article on these offences here if you would like some more general information on them.

Most commonly these charges are issued when the driver of the vehicle exceeds the posted speed limit by 50 km/h or more. That being said, these charges are not Speeding offences which fall under a separate section of the HTA. The very aggressive penalties reflect the political and media pressure active during the period when this legislation was crafted due to street racing that had resulted in a high profile fatality.

For insurance, generally a conviction for Stunt Driving will result in no longer qualifying for standard insurance coverage and being moved over to a high risk insurance company such as Facility. A conviction will also generally mean not being employable in the transportation industry.

For any given case, regardless of the nature of the charge(s), it is difficult to predict whether or not there will be a grounds to have the charge withdrawn/dismissed until disclosure has been received from the Crown's office. Given the serious nature of the offence and pending penalties, the charge will have had to have been issued by summons and will go to a Provincial Prosecutor. Generally these cases will take about 3 to 5 hearings to resolve and take approximately 6 to 12 months to proceed through the court.

The first avenue of defence is to determine if there are any legal grounds upon which to have the charge withdrawn. If not, a decision has to be made based on the merits of the Crown's case whether to proceed to trial or whether a sufficiently beneficial plea deal can be reached with the Crown Prosecutor.

Hopefully this helps!