Speed guns and bikes

mongol777

mongol777

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For couple of days now we had interesting discussion on speed guns on one of the private forums I belong too.
One of the guys started his career as a cop for first 8 years. He told us that every manual of every detector they
had said MC are not accurate. He recently asked one of the cops if it is still the same and cop confirmed - manuals
now say it cannot differentiate if there are any cars in the same line.
For legal purposes you ask the cop if he knows it will not work on MC and usually he gives a warning and lets you
go.
If you end up in court you ask to see the manual which will show the lack of accuracy on MC and if it says the part
about differentiation you ask if the cop is sure there were no cars.
He will hesitate and that is enough for the judge most will not even let the cop speak when they see the ticket is
on a MC.
So (aside from cop pacing and aircraft) - will it stand in court here? Anyone on this forum is a cop or have access to radar manuals and can confirm/deny?
 
from my experience with the laser guns, you need to point them at the license plate.

So for a bike, its not going to bounce back as effectively.

makes sense i think.

Id say lasers are just as ineffective
 
djbordie said:
from my experience with the laser guns, you need to point them at the license plate.

So for a bike, its not going to bounce back as effectively.

makes sense i think.

Id say lasers are just as ineffective
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Agree - I wonder what the manual says.
 
well looking at a Lidar manual... there's no mention on motorcycles anywhere

http://www.stalkerradar.com/pdf/lidarmanual.pdf

BUT

We suggest that the LIDAR beam be aimed low on the
vehicle, at the grill and front licenseplate area. The license plate is almost a perfect LIDAR reflector and
targeting it should produce the best results. Vehicles without license plates will result in the LIDAR having
shorter effective range. The shape and color of the vehicle can have an effect on the LIDAR. A light colored
vehicle will produce a better return signal than a dark colored vehicle.
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Have a look at how stealth aircraft are designed (lots of hard angles) and then apply the same principles to a motorcycle.

Basic principle is: angle of incidence = angle of reflection.

Your helmet and visor are probably better reflectors. If you wanted to be extra stealthy, you would have to add angled reflectors. Going full metal Judas Priest could do it, but there are probably better ways.

To go completely hard-core, a compressed air tube that fired a burst of metal confetti in front of the bike (google: chafe) when it detected radar/lidar frequencies or over blind hilltops and corners would probably do it. Bizzarely illegal, but yeah, thought this through a fair bit.

I could totally see arriving in a shower of glitter appealing to some of those sport bike guys.
 
GentlemanRacer said:
Have a look at how stealth aircraft are designed (lots of hard angles) and then apply the same principles to a motorcycle.

Basic principle is: angle of incidence = angle of reflection.

Your helmet and visor are probably better reflectors. If you wanted to be extra stealthy, you would have to add angled reflectors. Going full metal Judas Priest could do it, but there are probably better ways.

To go completely hard-core, a compressed air tube that fired a burst of metal confetti in front of the bike (google: chafe) when it detected radar/lidar frequencies or over blind hilltops and corners would probably do it. Bizzarely illegal, but yeah, thought this through a fair bit.

I could totally see arriving in a shower of glitter appealing to some of those sport bike guys.
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I am looking more at procedural/manuals stuff which can be used in court. In my riding history I got completely undeserved speeding ticket once - I had my GPS on and was looking at speedo and I was going just under 50 km/h in 50 zone. I was going slower then cars around me and cop still flagged me and wrote 10 over. Was long time ago and I was lazy to fight it (get disclosure, etc). But this is exactly the situation where I would apply knowledge about radar.
 
I'm waiting for OG to chime in on this, but from the cops I occasionally talk to, the Lidar guns are dead accurate. You don't have a hope in whatever purgatory place you believe in, of beating the ticket. All the cop has to do is hit a surface of your bike and it bounces back a speed.
 
ABadjusterrider_5 said:
I'm waiting for OG to chime in on this, but from the cops I occasionally talk to, the Lidar guns are dead accurate. You don't have a hope in whatever purgatory place you believe in, of beating the ticket. All the cop has to do is hit a surface of your bike and it bounces back a speed.
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Well, yes, they would say that, wouldn't they.
 
This is an interesting thread... There are a number of areas I pass on the way to work that they usually set up.
Quite often there are cars passiong me, and I wonder if I will be targeted becasue a cop gets a higher speed reading and see me on my red bikedeciding I was the best to pick from.

I wish I better understood radars and radar technology to feel like i could contibute to discussion intelligently, so I will step back and spectate
 
Yah, I tried to fight a Lidar ticket in November. I am actually working with different type of laser-altimeters, and i know, that they give sometimes huge error... but... OPP said, you can try to show your arguments, but the manual sais something about 1 kph error and that's what gonna be used.

I will try to find the scan of the manual and type of Lidar they used (it's somewhere home).

The first rule, don't argue with a cop, when he stopped you - everything you are saying will be turned against you.
 
slogan said:
Yah, I tried to fight a Lidar ticket in November. I am actually working with different type of laser-altimeters, and i know, that they give sometimes huge error... but... OPP said, you can try to show your arguments, but the manual sais something about 1 kph error and that's what gonna be used.

I will try to find the scan of the manual and type of Lidar they used (it's somewhere home).

The first rule, don't argue with a cop, when he stopped you - everything you are saying will be turned against you.
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I am still reading manual and nowehere it says that it is deadly accurate, too many variables. OPP can say all they want - I think its about how you or your lawyer will present it in courtroom
 
What is the legitamacy of the following scenario...

On the red hill in hamilton, they often set up radar at an exit (Greenhill I believe). cop on the bridge nails a car for whatever speed. They deploy one of the cruise lined up on the ramp to issue the ticket.

Cannot show you the radar reading,
Is the call on the car to get appropriate?,
 
GentlemanRacer said:
Have a look at how stealth aircraft are designed (lots of hard angles) and then apply the same principles to a motorcycle.
Click to expand...

Stealth aircraft were designed with flat surfaces, edges and angles only in the beginning because the technology wasn't good enough to produce curved stealth surfaces. They were stealth alright -they were just terribly aerodynamically inefficient and inherently unstable. Just like motorcycles modeled after them.

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