Somali pirates... pwned.

IRONLUNG said:
That was awesome. Stupid pirates. They should use rocket launchers.. lol
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Yeah, now the European fishermen can take all the fish out of Somali waters and the Mafia can dump toxic waste in there in peace :cool:
 
sonnythebull said:
****ing awesome
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Yaaaay.. Let the Somali poor starve while the Mafia, the insurance companies and the owners of illegal fishing operations rub their hands.. Time to celebrate :D

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=27114
UNITED NATIONS - The UN special envoy for Somalia on Friday sounded the alarm about rampant illegal fishing and the dumping of toxic waste off the coast of the lawless African nation....
...East African waters, particularly off Somalia, have huge numbers of commercial fish species, including the prized yellowfin tuna.

Foreign trawlers reportedly use prohibited fishing equipment, including nets with very small mesh sizes and sophisticated underwater lighting systems, to lure fish to their traps.

"I am convinced there is dumping of solid waste, chemicals and probably nuclear (waste).... There is no government (control) and there are few people with high moral ground," Ould Abdallah added.

Allegations of waste dumping off Somalia by European companies have been heard for years, according to Somalia watchers. The problem was highlighted in the wake of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami when broken hazardous waste containers washed up on Somali shores...
...Some Somali pirates have reportedly claimed to be acting as "coastguards" protecting their waters from illegal fishing and dumping of toxic waste.

Ould Abdallah cited the case of a Spanish trawler captured by pirates while illegally fishing for tuna off Somalia in April.
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They should've had a .50 cal there. Would've up the fun factor :rolleyes:
 
RockerGuy said:
They should've had a .50 cal there. Would've up the fun factor :rolleyes:
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They should devote 10% of the resources dedicated to shooting at/arresting pirates to preventing illegal fishing and dumping. Of course, the well-greased enterprise-driven governments will attack the symptom and not the problem (especially since the problem is providing a good chunk of that grease).
 
FiReSTaRT said:
They should devote 10% of the resources dedicated to shooting at/arresting pirates to preventing illegal fishing and dumping. Of course, the well-greased enterprise-driven governments will attack the symptom and not the problem (especially since the problem is providing a good chunk of that grease).
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I think the pirates would end up attacking the ppl protecting the waters.
In that kind of environment, who have the biggest gun wins
 
RockerGuy said:
I think the pirates would end up attacking the ppl protecting the waters.
In that kind of environment, who have the biggest gun wins
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You think you can protect the waters against the Mafia and/or people violating various international laws without a good arsenal? If the waters are protected from those lowlives, there's more money to be made in fishing, fewer recruits for pirate crews. Also, fewer resources being wasted on dealing with the health problems caused by the toxic waste. Plus, those crews protecting the waters can protect legitimate shipping from profit-oriented piracy. Win-win-win for everybody but the Mafia, the insurance industry (really jacking up the rates) and the illegal fisheries.
 
Just out of curiosity, why do you capitalize the M in mafia? Also which mafia? Is there any proof? Also the illegal fishing proof? Also the toxic waste dumping, proof? I don't agree with any of those things if they are happening, but I also don't think those pirates robbing people (even if it is Robin Hood style) is a good idea. If anyone tried boarding my ship regardless of what I was doing (unless it was "the law") my reaction would be the same.

FiReSTaRT said:
You think you can protect the waters against the Mafia and/or people violating various international laws without a good arsenal? If the waters are protected from those lowlives, there's more money to be made in fishing, fewer recruits for pirate crews. Also, fewer resources being wasted on dealing with the health problems caused by the toxic waste. Plus, those crews protecting the waters can protect legitimate shipping from profit-oriented piracy. Win-win-win for everybody but the Mafia, the insurance industry (really jacking up the rates) and the illegal fisheries.
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IRONLUNG said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you capitalize the M in mafia? Also which mafia? Is there any proof? Also the illegal fishing proof? Also the toxic waste dumping, proof? I don't agree with any of those things if they are happening, but I also don't think those pirates robbing people (even if it is Robin Hood style) is a good idea. If anyone tried boarding my ship regardless of what I was doing (unless it was "the law") my reaction would be the same.
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I'm capitalizing the word Mafia because it refers to the original, Italian Cosa Nostra. As for the proof, you think the UN special envoy to Somalia (in the article cited in post #5) would be pulling his facts out of his rectum for no good reason? That goes against the UN anti-piracy partyline. I'm not saying that those ships shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, but those pirates are the only thing opposing the illegal dumping of toxic+/nuclear waste and illegal commercial fishing that leaves the small fishermen starving. Hell, they even used those fishing ships on their pirate raids, for a bit of poetic justice.
 
That was cool. Serves them right. I was expecting bodies to fall out of the small boat but it's obvious they were shot dead.
 
Then I guess as a people its on them to organize together to rebuild their government. The envoy simply mentioned that he wants assistance in helping to identify who is exactly responsible for the illegal fishing, and dumping of waste.

"He said he had asked several international non-governmental organizations, including Global Witness, which works to break the links between natural resource exploitation, conflict, corruption, and human rights abuses worldwide, "to trace this illegal fishing, illegal dumping of waste."

But in the meantime I do not at all feel as though Somali Pirates are the only option they (Somali people) have left, and hardly believe the pirates are doing this to help anyone but themselves. Them spending and selling their "loot" may help the locals that are literally screwed by internal issues (to put it mildly), but if they as a people formed a government, their voice would be far more effective in dealing with any of these situations. Even from the article I still don't see (and can't find) a link to any mafia, especially the Italians. I would assume it would have been an asian country doing the over fishing, since China is regularly over fishing and annexing parts of the ocean from other countries, but the article quite clearly does not state any known source of the problems.

I think that's why I was like.. Mafia.. wtf..

FiReSTaRT said:
I'm capitalizing the word Mafia because it refers to the original, Italian Cosa Nostra. As for the proof, you think the UN special envoy to Somalia (in the article cited in post #5) would be pulling his facts out of his rectum for no good reason? That goes against the UN anti-piracy partyline. I'm not saying that those ships shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, but those pirates are the only thing opposing the illegal dumping of toxic+/nuclear waste and illegal commercial fishing that leaves the small fishermen starving. Hell, they even used those fishing ships on their pirate raids, for a bit of poetic justice.
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Also I just looked at the article date.. lol
 
Here's another article on the waste dumped on Somalia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4312553.stm
Nick Nuttall of the UN Environment Programme (UNEP) told the BBC that December's tsunami appeared to have broken barrels and scattered waste.

Mr Nuttall said a preliminary UN report had found that Somalis in the northern areas were falling sick as a result.

Some firms have been dumping waste off Somalia's coast for years, the UN says.
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An article linking the mafia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/09/italy.nuclearpower
Authorities in Italy are investigating a mafia clan accused of trafficking nuclear waste and trying to make plutonium.

The 'Ndrangheta mafia, which gained notoriety in August for its blood feud killings of six men in Germany, is alleged to have made illegal shipments of radioactive waste to Somalia, as well as seeking the "clandestine production" of other nuclear material.

Two of the Calabrian clan's members are being investigated, along with eight former employees of the state energy research agency Enea.

The eight are suspected of paying the mobsters to take waste off their hands in the 1980s and 1990s. At the time they were based at the agency's centre at Rotondella, a town in Basilicata province in the toe of Italy, which today treats "special" and "hazardous" waste. At other centres, Enea studies nuclear fusion and fission technologies.
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As for the people banding together, that's precisely what they did. They got a little navy and put a stop to the dumping and illegal fishing. Yes, nowadays most of them are in it for money, but you can't argue with the results. The criminals had to move onto other undefended African nations whose fishermen are starving now. The UN is absolutely uninterested in taking real measures to stop that or illegal dumping for that matter, both of which are much more damaging to Somali people than the pirates are to various economic interests. You are right about most of the poachers being Asian but there have been reports of Europeans (mostly Spaniards) fishing illegally in Somali waters as well.

Here's some more detailed info on that and an explanation how they evolved from fishermen to pirates...
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00.html
High-seas trawlers from countries as far flung as South Korea, Japan and Spain have operated down the Somali coast, often illegally and without licenses, for the better part of two decades, the U.N. says. They often fly flags of convenience from sea-faring friendly nations like Belize and Bahrain, which further helps the ships skirt international regulations and evade censure from their home countries. ...
...In the early days of Somali piracy, those who seized trawlers without licenses could count on a quick ransom payment, since the boat owners and companies backing those vessels didn't want to draw attention to their violation of international maritime law. This, Charo reckons, allowed the pirates to build up their tactical networks and whetted their appetite for bigger spoils....
...U.N. monitors in 2005 and 2006 suggested an embargo on fish taken from Somali waters, but their proposals were shot down by members of the Security Council. ...
...In the face of this, impoverished Somalis living by the sea have been forced over the years to defend their own fishing expeditions out of ports such as Eyl, Kismayo and Harardhere — all now considered to be pirate dens. Somali fishermen, whose industry was always small-scale, lacked the advanced boats and technologies of their interloping competitors, and also complained of being shot at by foreign fishermen with water cannons and firearms.
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Unfortunately, after all the publicity, once the pirates are eliminated, the poachers will be able to sink Somali fishing vessels at will claiming they were pirates. The dumping will resume with impunity.

Edit: Here's a paper from the Somali perspective with a bit more info on the damage caused by the illegal activities committed by foreigners (btw ain't it curious that most of the countries on that list decided to send ships to protect their illegal operations?):
http://wardheernews.com/Articles_09/Jan/Waldo/08_The_two_piracies_in_Somalia.html
Local fishermen documented cases of trawlers pouring boiling water on the fishermen in canoes, their nets cut or destroyed, smaller boats crushed, killing all the occupants, and other abuses suffered as they tried to protect their national fishing turf. Later, the fishermen armed themselves. In response, many of the foreign fishing vessels armed themselves with more sophisticated weapons and began to overpower the fishermen. It was only a matter of time before the local fishermen reviewed their tactics and modernized their hardware. This cycle of warfare has been going on from 1991 to the present. It is now developing into fully fledged, two-pronged illegal fishing and shipping piracy conflicts.

According to the High Seas Task Force (HSTF), there were over 800 IUUs fishing vessels in Somali waters at one time in 2005 taking advantage of Somalia’s inability to police and control its own waters and fishing grounds. The IUUs, which are estimated take out more than $450 million in fish value out of Somalia annually, neither compensate the local fishermen, pay tax, royalties nor do they respect any conservation and environmental regulations – norms associated with regulated fishing. It is believed that IUUs from the EU alone take out of the country more than five times the value of its aid to Somalia every year.
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FiReSTaRT said:
Yaaaay.. Let the Somali poor starve while the Mafia, the insurance companies and the owners of illegal fishing operations rub their hands.. Time to celebrate :D
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You can't help a country that isn't wiling to help itself. No amount of foreign aid can save that sewage hole of a country. Canadian soldiers returning from Somalia did not have glowing reviews of the Somali people.

Ya know, I'd pay a lot of money to get on a ship and shoot pirates. Hmm, now that's a business idea…
 
RetroGrouch said:
You can't help a country that isn't wiling to help itself. No amount of foreign aid can save that sewage hole of a country.

Ya know, I'd pay a lot of money to get on a ship and shoot pirates. Hmm, now that's a business idea…
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Ok, so your solution is to send warships to allow Europeans and Asians to poach and dump toxic waste with impunity and starve the Somalis to death, and if any local objects, drunken yahoos who paid for human-hunting tours can shoot at'em?
 
RetroGrouch said:
You can't help a country that isn't wiling to help itself. No amount of foreign aid can save that sewage hole of a country.

Ya know, I'd pay a lot of money to get on a ship and shoot pirates. Hmm, now that's a business idea…
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This point of view is classic, you definitely have your facts straight.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Ok, so your solution is to send warships to allow Europeans and Asians to poach and dump toxic waste with impunity and starve the Somalis to death, and if any local objects, drunken yahoos who paid for human-hunting tours can shoot at'em?
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Wouldn't be hunting since the pirates are attacking first.
 
RetroGrouch said:
Wouldn't be hunting since the pirates are attacking first.
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Ahh ok.. Bait them first by poaching or dumping containers into the water and then have your drunken yahoos shoot'em?
 
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