Slowest one can go in highway.

[koorosh]

Is there a clause in HTA specifying how much slower than speed limit one can legally drive in a road/highway. Assuming good road condition, clear traffic and dry road. I am curious about this as I have seen people going easily half the speed limit on a sunny, clear summer day and affect traffic negatively.

 

[Roomie]

132. (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 132 (1)

I'll guess it depends on if the cop is having a good or bad day?


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Some Quebec highways have a maximum AND minimum speed. I can't recall ever seeing that in Ontario. If there is another lane that traffic can use in order to get past such slow moving traffic, then 132 (1) likely doesn't apply. It's a situational thing.

 

[Snobike Mike]

Some Quebec highways have a maximum AND minimum speed. I can't recall ever seeing that in Ontario. If there is another lane that traffic can use in order to get past such slow moving traffic, then 132 (1) likely doesn't apply. It's a situational thing.

You see that in the states as well from time to time with minimum/maximums and also truck speed limit vs everyone else.

I remember some guy many many years ago that was caught going 120 or something on the highway. He was so upset at getting caught for going the speed of traffic he subsequently protested by driving 100kph exactly in the passing lane with a sign on his van and got nailed again for something I can't remember. It was quite a big Ontario news item back them.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

You see that in the states as well from time to time with minimum/maximums and also truck speed limit vs everyone else.

I remember some guy many many years ago that was caught going 120 or something on the highway. He was so upset at getting caught for going the speed of traffic he subsequently protested by driving 100kph exactly in the passing lane with a sign on his van and got nailed again for something I can't remember. It was quite a big Ontario news item back them.

You can find a video, on Youtube, where the 90 percentile folks had a protest by driving in all marked lanes, on a divided highway, at exactly the speed limit. It was chaos.

 

[koorosh]

132. (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 132 (1)

I'll guess it depends on if the cop is having a good or bad day?


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up

Well, that is where the problem starts as desired speed becomes totally subjective. Same as the upper limit (above 50=charges, impoundment, above 20=ticket,... all regardless of road condition) there must be a lower limit too. Otherwise everyone can claim that his/her safety and others is affected if he/she goes more than the speed he/she likes !

 

[AF4iK]

I do think there should be a set minimum speed limit for highways to ensure there isn't a massive velocity differential between the general flow of traffic and an individual. When someone drives really slow in a high speed zone it effectively makes everyone else a speeder. The difference is that real speeders expect to encounter slower moving traffic whereas folks driving the limit don't necessarily.

Having said that, IMO, the biggest problem is with lack of respect for other motorists. Everyone feels that everyone else should follow their personal rules of the road. Example: guy at work says he drives 120 in the left lane on the 400s and if anyone faster approaches he will not move over because he's going fast enough.

Attitudes like this are the problem. Regardless of whether you agree with other drivers' cruising speeds you are now in their way. Respectfully move over to let faster traffic pass and only occupy the left lane when you yourself want to pass. Judge them if you want but do it silently from the lane over. Simple. The posted speed limit is almost irrelevant.

 

[GreyGhost]

You can get a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic (or something similar) however there is no set speed. A few decades ago, someone got a speeding ticket for 10 over on the 401 near Port Hope, they returned the next week and drove side-by-side at 100 km/h to protest the stupidity of the 10 km/h over ticket, they each got the impeding ticket.

EDIT: Obviously this window was open for a while and people already provided the answers I gave.

 

[jonpurdy]

Having said that, IMO, the biggest problem is with lack of respect for other motorists. Everyone feels that everyone else should follow their personal rules of the road. Example: guy at work says he drives 120 in the left lane on the 400s and if anyone faster approaches he will not move over because he's going fast enough.

This is definitely one of the big problems.

 

[Roomie]

Having said that, IMO, the biggest problem is with lack of respect for other motorists. Everyone feels that everyone else should follow their personal rules of the road. Example: guy at work says he drives 120 in the left lane on the 400s and if anyone faster approaches he will not move over because he's going fast enough.

Those are the entitled people you see getting brake checked for being pricks and the first to ***** about other motorists. In onterrible that's an enormous issue since there are so many entitled ******** here.



Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up

 

[conundrum]

years ago my dad got stuck on the 401 at like 3am -- transmission cable broke on his car (manual). OPP told him to be off at the next ramp or they'd ticket him for being under the limit, as he could only limp along in 2nd at maybe 70-80km/h.

 

[nobbie48]

years ago my dad got stuck on the 401 at like 3am -- transmission cable broke on his car (manual). OPP told him to be off at the next ramp or they'd ticket him for being under the limit, as he could only limp along in 2nd at maybe 70-80km/h.

In the dark with drivers taking advantage of the open road it might be difficult to judge distance / closing speeds etc. that might have been a good call. If the OPP was dilligent to the risk they would have provided rear guard with flashing lights.

 

[nobbie48]

132. (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 132 (1)

I'll guess it depends on if the cop is having a good or bad day?


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up

If someone wants to study the effect just look at 427 northbound in the AM rush. 427 is a long uphill highway and a lot of heavy trucks can't keep up speed. A backlog of cars from Gibb Road and Burnhamthorpe get jammed behind them trying to get to the left lane to pick up the core lanes for the 401 routing. Then the cages face the same thing if they want the 401 west exit off the 427 core. The left collector lanes are busy with fast moving cars that have entered further down the line.

Slow moving trucks wanting the core lanes make it worse.

Look at all the new condos being built along 427. Do you think it's going to improve?

 

[iFly55]

One OPP told me that -5kph was fine, but most will tell you to drive at the limit whenever possible. If you're driving at speeds well below the limit, you should use your hazards and get off at the nearest exit.

Slower oversize load trucks usually get police escorts.

R. v. Cianchino, 2010 ONCJ 298 (CanLII)

There was a case recently where a car was driving at 50kph on the 407; a pick-up truck going 119kph collided with the car; the car driver was charged with careless driving after an extensive accident reconstruction.

Ultimately because the driver exercised due dilligence by driving with his hazards and in the slowest lane after his mechanical failure, the JP threw out the charge.
___________

ON prosecution in the Cianchino case relied heavily on a civil case Jivraj v. Fischer (1992), 124 A.R. 81, [1992] A.J. No. 133 (QL) (A.Q.B.) and a number of other cases.

Moreover, in Jivraj v. Fischer (1992), 124 A.R. 81, [1992] A.J. No. 133 (QL) (A.Q.B.), the court found a motorist to be driving negligently at a speed of 80 k.p.h. on a highway with a posted speed limit of 110 k.p.h., and that the slower speed was an unreasonable speed since it represented a significant danger to highway safety if the motor vehicle had not been operated with extra care taking into account the effect its slow speed may have on other vehicles operating at or near the speed limit, especially when the vehicle was driven slowly in the fast or high speed lane (emphasis is mine below):

While there is no minimum speed limit on Highway No. 1 at this location, I find that to travel at a maximum speed of 80 kph (approximately 72% of the speed limit) with a motor home unit of this length, weight and complexity represents, in the vernacular, "dawdling", and, having regard to other vehicles legally travelling at up to 110 kph, is an unreasonable speed under section 69 of the Highway Traffic Act, that represents a significant danger to highway safety, if the motor vehicle is not operated extra carefully to take into account the effect that its slow speed may have on other vehicles operating at or near the speed limit - this is especially so when travelling in or crossing into the left lane, which is the "fast" or high speed lane, having regard to sections 73 and 74 of the Highway Traffic Act.

…

The result is that he presented a slow moving, lengthy, obstruction, in the "fast lane" on a fast moving highway, and made a left turn into (or started a in-turn through) a median, at considerable safety risk to vehicles approaching from behind at or near the speed limit, especially when they would have some distractions to which I have referred and especially as their vision would be somewhat initially restricted due to the aforementioned rise. …

 

[nobbie48]

One OPP told me that -5kph was fine, but most will tell you to drive at the limit whenever possible. If you're driving at speeds well below the limit, you should use your hazards and get off at the nearest exit.

Slower oversize load trucks usually get police escorts.

R. v. Cianchino, 2010 ONCJ 298 (CanLII)

There was a case recently where a car was driving at 50kph on the 407; a pick-up truck going 119kph collided with the car; the car driver was charged with careless driving after an extensive accident reconstruction.

Ultimately because the driver exercised due dilligence by driving with his hazards and in the slowest lane after his mechanical failure, the JP threw out the charge.
___________

ON prosecution in the Cianchino case relied heavily on a civil case Jivraj v. Fischer (1992), 124 A.R. 81, [1992] A.J. No. 133 (QL) (A.Q.B.) and a number of other cases.

The car that got rammed had been driving at 50 kph for 5-10 minutes on the 407. They had time to get off the highway. If off the highway they are at a lesser risk and closer to service.

I see dumb ***** driving slow on the highway with flashers on because they have a mattress or plywood strapped to the roof with string. As soon as you realize you can't keep up you get off. That's why we have city streets with 50kph limits.

 

[Scudzo_2]

Some Quebec highways have a maximum AND minimum speed. I can't recall ever seeing that in Ontario.

Min 60, Max 100 in Quebec.

 

[unL33T]

Having said that, IMO, the biggest problem is with lack of respect for other motorists. Everyone feels that everyone else should follow their personal rules of the road. Example: guy at work says he drives 120 in the left lane on the 400s and if anyone faster approaches he will not move over because he's going fast enough.

Attitudes like this are the problem. Regardless of whether you agree with other drivers' cruising speeds you are now in their way. Respectfully move over to let faster traffic pass and only occupy the left lane when you yourself want to pass. Judge them if you want but do it silently from the lane over. Simple. The posted speed limit is almost irrelevant.

I try to stay in the right as much as I reasonably can. To the point that I will fly by people on the right just to try to make them aware they should be another lane over. They don't get the hint, though.

years ago my dad got stuck on the 401 at like 3am -- transmission cable broke on his car (manual). OPP told him to be off at the next ramp or they'd ticket him for being under the limit, as he could only limp along in 2nd at maybe 70-80km/h.

I had my clutch cable break on my 97 Saab 900se last year. Luckily traffic was slow but not stop and go so I could putter along at about 40 in first without bothering anyone. It did start to open up around Allen Rd and a few people got ****** off (I had my 4 ways on but I guess that wasn't good enough). Managed to make it all the way onto Eglinton WB from there but then had to stop and it stalled out and I couldnt get it started again. Was about 5 minutes from home.

Come to think about it, I probably could've pushed the car the rest of the way home.

 

[PLau]

Having said that, IMO, the biggest problem is with lack of respect for other motorists. Everyone feels that everyone else should follow their personal rules of the road. Example: guy at work says he drives 120 in the left lane on the 400s and if anyone faster approaches he will not move over because he's going fast enough.

Attitudes like this are the problem. Regardless of whether you agree with other drivers' cruising speeds you are now in their way. Respectfully move over to let faster traffic pass and only occupy the left lane when you yourself want to pass. Judge them if you want but do it silently from the lane over. Simple. The posted speed limit is almost irrelevant.

I had a guy in front of me on the 427 going 110km/h on the passing lane for about a minute with no one in front of him. I flicked 2 or 3 quick flashes and he moved out of the way. 2 seconds later, he switches back in to the passing lane behind me and flips his high beams on and leaves them on to "get back at me". Because he was traveling at the same speed he previously was, the high beams were not visible after a few mins.

It was a Civic.