Single vs double yellow vs white line

gptt916 · Jul 14, 2015

I have done some research here and there however I wasn't able to find a firm answer to this question.

I have read somewhere on this forum (and elsewhere) that all lines are cautionary, as opposed to regulatory (erected signs). I have also read that only yellow lines are cautionary, white lines are regulatory.

I know for passing a vehicle there are regulations basically stating:
1. You cannot pass if there is a vehicle to the left of the passing vehicle or the vehicle to be passed.
2. You cannot drive on the left of centre of a road (with exceptions)

An example specific to this would be: On a 2 way/2 lane road (one lane in each direction), in the middle there is a double solid yellow line. Can we pass a vehicle in front if it is safe to do so? (ie. No on coming traffic for a safe distance etc.)

What if in the same scenario, its a single solid yellow line?

Brian P · Jul 14, 2015

For purposes of overtaking another vehicle, in Ontario, it's (almost) irrelevant. It doesn't matter single or double line, it doesn't matter white or yellow.

You are not supposed to be left of the center of the road within a prescribed distance (only 30 metres!!) of prescribed hazards. The center line is not mentioned at all. http://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK237 See HTA s. 148.

The upshot is that it is perfectly legal to overtake on the other side of a double yellow line in Ontario as long as (a) it is safe to do so (no approaching vehicles) and (b) you are not within the prescribed distance of the prescribed hazards.

The words "... in Ontario" are a key phrase. Most other jurisdictions are not like this.

Brian P · Jul 14, 2015

One small clarification. If there is a sign that states no passing, then THAT is the law, and overtaking in a place where there is a "no passing" sign can get you a "disobey sign" ticket.

But ... Nothing in the HTA specifies how far beyond that sign that the restriction is in effect. We don't have cancellation-of-restriction signs as they do elsewhere in the world. (In Germany, if you pass a restriction sign, it is in effect until cancelled, and the roads department is extremely diligent in ensuring that every restriction zone has appropriate signs putting the restriction into effect but also cancelling the restriction on the other side of the restriction zone. Ontario ain't like that ...)

iFly55 · Jul 14, 2015

In Ontario the lines painted on the ground regardless of colour are not enforceable unless there is a posted regulation sign like "Do Not Pass": http://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900615#BK14

If an accident occurred while you overtaking then you'll have to look at the Fault Determination Rules: http://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

gptt916 · Jul 14, 2015

Brian P said:
For purposes of overtaking another vehicle, in Ontario, it's (almost) irrelevant. It doesn't matter single or double line, it doesn't matter white or yellow.

You are not supposed to be left of the center of the road within a prescribed distance (only 30 metres!!) of prescribed hazards. The center line is not mentioned at all. http://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK237 See HTA s. 148.

The upshot is that it is perfectly legal to overtake on the other side of a double yellow line in Ontario as long as (a) it is safe to do so (no approaching vehicles) and (b) you are not within the prescribed distance of the prescribed hazards.

The words "... in Ontario" are a key phrase. Most other jurisdictions are not like this.

Ah, didn't know about the 30 meter part, hence I was a bit confused as to the mixed answers I have been seeing.

Brian P said:
One small clarification. If there is a sign that states no passing, then THAT is the law, and overtaking in a place where there is a "no passing" sign can get you a "disobey sign" ticket.

But ... Nothing in the HTA specifies how far beyond that sign that the restriction is in effect. We don't have cancellation-of-restriction signs as they do elsewhere in the world. (In Germany, if you pass a restriction sign, it is in effect until cancelled, and the roads department is extremely diligent in ensuring that every restriction zone has appropriate signs putting the restriction into effect but also cancelling the restriction on the other side of the restriction zone. Ontario ain't like that ...)

Right, signs are regulatory. Interesting that you mention how we don't have cancellation signs, I never really gave it much thought but now as I am recalling, I don't see them on the road

Joe Bass · Jul 14, 2015

Interesting facts presented here by both Brian P and ifly55. I was , and have been for 25ish years, mislead to believe that passing on a double solid was a no no. Thanks for the clarification.
That being said, with so much not being regulatory, and giving the drivers so much leeway, it's no wonder we have such bad drivers here. I will however continue to not cross solid lines for passing. I'm in no rush ?.

nearace · Jul 14, 2015

The rules don't apply on lake ridge rd, I have been passed all up and down that road.

DownUnder · Jul 14, 2015

Whats the point of having double solid lines if they dont mean anything, just a waste of paint... The usual Ontario wasteful govt stuff.

Brian P · Jul 14, 2015

Those rules were put into law in the horse-and-buggy era (and if you go to rural areas and small towns around Waterloo Region, there is some sense in mentioning equestrians in the legislation). Not mentioning lane markings allows the law to still apply as-written to dirt roads, paved or tar-and-chip roads without lane markings, snow-covered roads, etc.

While the HTA could use an update and revamp ... this is one particular area where it could be left alone. Think of how many two-lane rural roads used to be marked as passing zones, but have now been marked double-yellow solid lines even though nothing has changed, because some small-time bureaucrat wants to "slow down crazy drivers" etc.

It wouldn't trouble me if there was also legislation put into effect requiring any section of road meeting appropriate minimum sight-lines to be marked as a passing zone, so that such small-time bureaucrats couldn't arbitrarily mark them as no-passing zones ... but in Ontario, that'll never happen.

yeltoM · Jul 15, 2015

Joe Bass said:
Interesting facts presented here by both Brian P and ifly55. I was , and have been for 25ish years, mislead to believe that passing on a double solid was a no no. Thanks for the clarification.
That being said, with so much not being regulatory, and giving the drivers so much leeway, it's no wonder we have such bad drivers here. I will however continue to not cross solid lines for passing. I'm in no rush .

Just a thought. Could it be, that the reason there are such bad drivers here on the roads, is that many are unaware of the rules of the road. Even those with 25ish years of experience. :dontknow:

Joe Bass · Jul 15, 2015

yeltoM said:
Just a thought. Could it be, that the reason there are such bad drivers here on the roads, is that many are unaware of the rules of the road. Even those with 25ish years of experience. :dontknow:

Was waiting for that....
I may not be a great driver, but I am cautious and aware. But I have been known to make mistakes. However, not passing on a double solid line, imo, is less damaging to other drivers/ riders than say, not shoulder checking when switching lanes, no?
And in my defense, I'm also at least always learning, or trying to.
Interesting to note, though, as pointed out, this is in Ontario...other provinces have line markings that are regulatory.
But in the end, you are correct; 25 years and I do not know all the rules of the road and for that I am ashamed.

SweetOnion · Jul 15, 2015

DownUnder said:
Whats the point of having double solid lines if they dont mean anything, just a waste of paint... The usual Ontario wasteful govt stuff.

Much like how locks simply keep the honest people honest... Yellow lines keep the extremely stupid from killing themselves.

infernobuster · Jul 15, 2015

nearace said:
The rules don't apply on lake ridge rd, I have been passed all up and down that road.

Thats why there is heavy enforcement on lakeridge lately.

LePhillou · Jul 15, 2015

Normally, when riding north of the GTA on country roads, the lines are a good indication of visibility for overtaking. So say as an example, the guys on the 300cc and less bikes should probably follow those guidelines as they might not get up to speed fast enough to counter the lack of visibilty when overtaking.

I usually see double lines as indicators for hills and corners. Most of the time its not really worth it to pass when the risk is higher to save 1 minute ... or to have that car be in back of you at the next set of lights lol.

theraymondguy · Jul 15, 2015

Joe Bass said:
Was waiting for that....
I may not be a great driver, but I am cautious and aware. But I have been known to make mistakes. However, not passing on a double solid line, imo, is less damaging to other drivers/ riders than say, not shoulder checking when switching lanes, no?
And in my defense, I'm also at least always learning, or trying to.
Interesting to note, though, as pointed out, this is in Ontario...other provinces have line markings that are regulatory.
But in the end, you are correct; 25 years and I do not know all the rules of the road and for that I am ashamed.

Add me in with that group, I was taught the same way in the same era (1990): double line, do not pass.

unL33T · Jul 15, 2015

Is there anything that says which lane you have to turn from/to? Getting pretty annoyed lately with everyone making right turns from the left lane on St Clair. See left turns from the right lane in some other areas.

I was also taught that double yellow means no passing but what we are taught, and even what is in the driver's handbook, are not necessarily always law. I was even taught by Young Drivers that you should never actually be going the speed limit because you are a hazard if you do, but we all know what the law says about that. I was also "taught" by a cop that all accidents in parking lots are 50/50, and that's not true, either.

V-Tom · Jul 15, 2015

nearace said:
The rules don't apply on lake ridge rd, I have been passed all up and down that road.

That was me!

..Tom

V-Tom · Jul 15, 2015

Joe Bass said:
...
I will however continue to not cross solid lines for passing. I'm in no rush .

Passing doesn't have to have anything to do with rushing. Somene mght simply want to go faster than the vehicles in front.

..Tom

PLau · Jul 15, 2015

unL33T said:
Is there anything that says which lane you have to turn from/to? Getting pretty annoyed lately with everyone making right turns from the left lane on St Clair. See left turns from the right lane in some other areas.

I was also taught that double yellow means no passing but what we are taught, and even what is in the driver's handbook, are not necessarily always law. I was even taught by Young Drivers that you should never actually be going the speed limit because you are a hazard if you do, but we all know what the law says about that. I was also "taught" by a cop that all accidents in parking lots are 50/50, and that's not true, either.

There is a law:
Is it enforced? No.
Do you see cops breaking this law? Yes.
Do they care? No.

It's one of those laws that would drastically improve road safety if enforced. I have spoken with older (40+) people that think they're SUPPOSED TO go into the next lane exiting a turn. Then there are others that simply don't care.

[h=3]Turning at intersections[/h]141. (1) In this section,
“centre line” means,
(a) in the case of a highway on which traffic is permitted to move in opposing directions, the marked line or median that divides traffic moving in opposing directions on the highway or, where there is no marked line or median, the centre of the roadway, and
(b) in the case of a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic, the left curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (1).
[h=3]Right turn at intersection[/h](2) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the right into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the right-hand lane or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway and he or she shall make the rightturn by entering the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (2).
[h=3]Right turn, where multiple lanes[/h](3) Despite subsection (2), where more than one lane of a highway has been designated as a right-turn lane, the driver or operator of a vehicle intending to turn to the right into an intersecting highway shall approach the intersection in one of the lanes and leave the intersection in the lane of the intersecting highway that corresponds to the lane from which the turn was commenced. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (3).
[h=3]Exception[/h](4) A driver of a road service vehicle entering an intersection within a lane other than one described in subsection (2) or (3) may make a right turn from the approach lane if the turn can be safely made. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (4).
[h=3]Left turn, across path of approaching vehicle[/h](5) No driver or operator of a vehicle in an intersection shall turn left across the path of a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction unless he or she has afforded a reasonable opportunity to the driver or operator of the approaching vehicle to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (5).
[h=3]Left turn, at intersection[/h](6) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).
[h=3]Left turn, where multiple lanes[/h](7) Despite subsection (6), where more than one lane of a highway has been designated as a left-turn lane, the driver or operator of a vehicle intending to turn to the left into an intersecting highway shall approach the intersection in one of the lanes and leave the intersection in the lane of the intersecting highway that corresponds to the lane from which the turn was commenced. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (7).
[h=3]Exception[/h](8) A driver of a road service vehicle entering an intersection within a left-turn lane may leave the intersection without turning to the left if the movement can be safely made. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (8).

iFly55 · Jul 15, 2015

unL33T said:
Is there anything that says which lane you have to turn from/to? Getting pretty annoyed lately with everyone making right turns from the left lane on St Clair. See left turns from the right lane in some other areas.

Yes, this is the #1 ****** driving habit that I hate.

http://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK228

HTA S141 -Turning at intersections

Right turn at intersection

(2) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the right into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the right-hand lane or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway and he or she shall make the right turn by entering the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (2).

Left turn, at intersection

(6) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).

http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do-i/set-fines/set-fines-i/schedule-43/
http://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/940339

S141(2) - Improper right turn - $110 + 2 points
S141(6) - Improper left turn - $110 + 2 points

I wish that law enforcement here focused on enforcing turns at intersections rather than speeding. Instead of handing out reduced $40 tickets for doing +10km/hr, they can be making $110 and if the driver fails to stop for the red light while making the right turn that's +$325.

So much money making opportunities, and they're wasting their time on reduced speeding tickets.

Single vs double yellow vs white line

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