Red light ticket - need help bad | GTAMotorcycle.com

Red light ticket - need help bad

blackmonster

blackmonster

Well-known member
Hi everyone

I really need advice. I just got a ticket for apparently running a red light. I went on a yellow light but again that's the cops opinion vs my opinion. This is my second ticket ever in almost 10 years with my drivers license and now first ever on my bike.


I am worried about the 4 demerit points. The cop told me to chose option 3 and take it to trial and plead guru with an explanation and they will lessen the ticket and charge

Opinions ? I just don't want to get demerits and have insurance increase next year or I won't ride then. Any advice will be so much helpful
 
Pleading guilty will do nothing for your points. It might lower the fine. You need to plead not guilty and either try for a plea to a no-point offense or you need to get disclosure and fight it based on whether or not you could have stopped safely. Or hope the officer doesn't show up..
 
I don't know if self preservation is a valid defense. You can get rear ended if you try to stop and the driver behind you chooses to run the red.

Numerous times I have comfortably stopped when a driver further back has run through in a different lane.
 
Where was the officer located when you went through the yellow light?

The reason I ask is years ago (early 90's) back in BC I went to court to fight a speeding ticket and spent a morning listening to some down right funny excuses. The only guy that got off that morning who's officer showed for trial was a running a red light charge. And the reason he got off of the charge was the officer couldn't see the light that faced the person charged from his position. He could see one of the other faces of the light, but not the one facing the the guy who was charged. The judge ruled that the light could have been malfunctioning and there for the guy running the light may have also had a green light as he claimed.
 
woobie said:
Where was the officer located when you went through the yellow light?

The reason I ask is years ago (early 90's) back in BC I went to court to fight a speeding ticket and spent a morning listening to some down right funny excuses. The only guy that got off that morning who's officer showed for trial was a running a red light charge. And the reason he got off of the charge was the officer couldn't see the light that faced the person charged from his position. He could see one of the other faces of the light, but not the one facing the the guy who was charged. The judge ruled that the light could have been malfunctioning and there for the guy running the light may have also had a green light as he claimed.
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Good one. That could work.
 
coyo said:
Unless the officer went back to the intersection and verified that the system was functioning properly, then it won't work.
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I dunno..he can't go back in time and prove it was working at the time of the infraction. I don't necessarily think every judge would buy it..but you never know!
 
nobbie48 said:
I don't know if self preservation is a valid defense. You can get rear ended if you try to stop and the driver behind you chooses to run the red.

Numerous times I have comfortably stopped when a driver further back has run through in a different lane.
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in other words a "due dilligence" defense

unfortunately this this an 'absolute liability offense', the courts will not entertain any theoretical accident scenarios

they only want to know whether you stopped or proceeded through a red-light
 
invictus43 said:
I dunno..he can't go back in time and prove it was working at the time of the infraction. I don't necessarily think every judge would buy it..but you never know!
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If the officer observed the lights functioning properly before the offense then goes back and verifies again afterwards, the court will accept that the lights were working properly.
 
so you went through a yellow...

would you have been able to stop?

"Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular amber light and facing the light shall stop his or her vehicle if he or she can do so safely, otherwise he or she may proceed with caution." (Ontario HTA Section 144.15)
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Redline

call them, they'll help you out.
 
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Amber light
Amber light

(15) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular amber indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle if he or she can do so safely, otherwise he or she may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (15).
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red light
Red light

(18 ) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (18 ).
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Where to stop
Where to stop – intersection

(5) A driver who is directed by a traffic control signal erected at an intersection to stop his or her vehicle shall stop,

(a) at the sign or roadway marking indicating where the stop is to be made;

(b) if there is no sign or marking, immediately before entering the nearest crosswalk; or

(c) if there is no sign, marking or crosswalk, immediately before entering the intersection. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (5); 2006, c. 19, Sched. T, s. 6 (1).
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essentially the light you saw at the point where you entered the intersection is the light.

controlled_intersection.jpg

Notice how the black car's "intersection" begins far back from where the two roads actually meet.

The cop needs to prove what the colour was when you entered. ie: he needs a clear view. He needs to see the white line and the light facing you. If he was behind you, he should have a clear view.

In the pic if you were the black car, the cop would have to be behind you.
If you were the red car, the cop could be the blue car, purple car, or behind you. He couldn't be the black car.


Also remember, when a car turning left enters the intersection with a green light, then while waiting to turn left, the light can change to red before it's safe to proceed. <- not a red light infraction.

What colour was the light, before you entered the intersection?


EDIT: demerit points don't matter to insurance. Just convictions. A yellow light or a red light, are both MINOR convictions so it wouldn't make a difference if it was yellow or red.

your only way to keep insurance down, is to prove the cop couldn't tell what the light was when you entered.

also, my liscence has one ticket on it, (red light that really was a yellow) and it didn't change my insurance.
 
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blackmonster said:
Thanks all for the replies.
Lots of good information
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Make sure you got the part about "demerit points MEAN NOTHING" ;)

You'll only need to worry about them when you've lost (or accumulated depending on how you look at it) a bunch of them :D

-Jamie M.
 
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