Putting my father's name under ownership. But he has no M license.

A

ababab

Active member
Hey guys, i'm with State Farm, my agent told me I can list my dad's name under the ownership to reduce payments, even if he is NOT carrying an M license. He has got a G license however. Is this possible? he has a few cars and our house with them already.

She also said I can put his ans my name in the ownership...anybody do this? Where on the bill of sale and ownership do i list both names?

I'd like to put it under his name but im skeptical bc he only has a G license :S

Lastly, when I go to the ministry to transfer ownerhip, say all on my own, and I want the ownership in his name, will my dad have to be present or can i do it on his behalf?

Thanks.
 
ababab said:
Hey guys, i'm with State Farm, my agent told me I can list my dad's name under the ownership to reduce payments, even if he is NOT carrying an M license. He has got a G license however. Is this possible? he has a few cars and our house with them already.

She also said I can put his ans my name in the ownership...anybody do this? Where on the bill of sale and ownership do i list both names?

I'd like to put it under his name but im skeptical bc he only has a G license :S

Lastly, when I go to the ministry to transfer ownerhip, say all on my own, and I want the ownership in his name, will my dad have to be present or can i do it on his behalf?
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I think you might have misunderstood what your agent said to you.

I'll just answer your direct question. If he already has a policy with state farm and is just adding "his new bike" to it, they most likely won't require an M license (I know for a fact they didn't for mine when I went this route). If push comes to shove just get your father to go write the M1 test for $17, that's it, done, finished. He never has to get his M2, M, etc.

When you go to the ministry to transfer ownership to him, he will have to be present, or at least provide you with a letter of permission allowing you to register a vehicle in his name (photo copy his license on the back of the letter). When transferring it as a gift (so you don't pay tax) the MTO has special requirements:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/used.shtml#tax

http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/013-1157E~1/$File/1157E.pdf

You will need to get the above form notarized by a Commissioner of Oaths. Some MTO offices have them on-site, call and ask. If not there are some places that will do it for free (Legal Aid office at the Oshawa Center is usually where I go). Your father will have to be physically present when the form is notarized.

Your dad must list you as the primary driver of the vehicle when he adds it to his policy otherwise it's insurance fraud/illegal. The insurance won't be much/any cheaper with you listed as the primary driver, unless he's able to take advantage of multi vehicle discounts, etc.

If you DON'T live at the same address as your dad and you don't have a problem with insurance fraud there are cheaper options than what I've explained above.

-Jamie M.
 
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toysareforboys said:
I think you might have misunderstood what your agent said to you.

I'll just answer your direct question. If he already has a policy with state farm and is just adding "his new bike" to it, they most likely won't require an M license (I know for a fact they didn't for mine when I went this route). If push comes to shove just get your father to go write the M1 test for $17, that's it, done, finished. He never has to get his M2, M, etc.

When you go to the ministry to transfer ownership to him, he will have to be present, or at least provide you with a letter of permission allowing you to register a vehicle in his name (photo copy his license on the back of the letter). When transferring it as a gift (so you don't pay tax) the MTO has special requirements:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/used.shtml#tax

http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/013-1157E~1/$File/1157E.pdf

You will need to get the above form notarized by a Commissioner of Oaths. Some MTO offices have them on-site, call and ask. If not there are some places that will do it for free (Legal Aid office at the Oshawa Center is usually where I go). Your father will have to be physically present when the form is notarized.

Your dad must list you as the primary driver of the vehicle when he adds it to his policy otherwise it's insurance fraud/illegal. The insurance won't be much/any cheaper with you listed as the primary driver, unless he's able to take advantage of multi vehicle discounts, etc.

If you DON'T live at the same address as your dad and you don't have a problem with insurance fraud there are cheaper options than what I've explained above.

-Jamie M.
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Kudos to the OP for being skeptical and good points from tafb. Keep in mind if these paperwork games were deemed to be fraud after an expensive collision of a million or two, the insurance company could decide to not cover the tab. If the bike is in the father's name it's his assets on the auction block.

Insurance is expensive but not as expensive as not having it.
 
If you drive the vehicle the majority of the time, you must be listed as the principal operator. Your Dad may own the bike, but if you're the one driving it then your risk profile will determine the premium. If your bike is added to your Dad's policy, then you might benefit from some discounts (such as a multi-product discount if his car is with the same insurer).
 
VifferFun said:
If you drive the vehicle the majority of the time, you must be listed as the principal operator. Your Dad may own the bike, but if you're the one driving it then your risk profile will determine the premium. If your bike is added to your Dad's policy, then you might benefit from some discounts (such as a multi-product discount if his car is with the same insurer).
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I believe this is how I will have it set up. That way State Farm is good in the sense that he won't be required to obtain an M-class license.
 
Be aware, I've heard of a situation where, in this case, a car was registered to a mother but the son was the principal operator, unbeknownst to the insurance company. Son has an accident in the car (Cobalt SS). Still able to drive, insurance company comes out to look at the car and says to the mom "could you go ahead and move the vehicle for us?" Mom says "I don't know how to drive standard".... LOL Claim was denied for fraud.
 
My car is under my grandmothers name... She doesn't have her license any more, but it brought my insurance down from $300 to $120 a month.

- mind you they know about this.


- Randy
 
ReaImDown said:
My car is under my grandmothers name... She doesn't have her license any more, but it brought my insurance down from $300 to $120 a month.

- mind you they know about this.
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As long as they have you listed as the "principal operator" you are good to go. If not, it's illegal. I would call the insurance company to confirm.

-Jamie M.
 
ReaImDown said:
My car is under my grandmothers name... She doesn't have her license any more, but it brought my insurance down from $300 to $120 a month.

- mind you they know about this.


- Randy
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I'm guessing that you're young, in which case $120/mo is most certainly the premium with your grandma as the principal operator and not yourself. You're telling me that your broker/agent knows that your unlicensed grandma is listed as the principal operator of your car, and they aren't doing anything about it?
 
VifferFun said:
I'm guessing that you're young, in which case $120/mo is most certainly the premium with your grandma as the principal operator and not yourself. You're telling me that your broker/agent knows that your unlicensed grandma is listed as the principal operator of your car, and they aren't doing anything about it?
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She's the owner, but she isn't insured... I am. They don't seem to care


- Randy
 
ReaImDown said:
She's the owner, but she isn't insured... I am. They don't seem to care


- Randy
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If the agent is using yor grandmother's address and she lives in a safe driving zone it could make a big difference. However the insurance is based on where the vehicle is driven not the owners address.
In the event of a claim I wonder who picks up the tab if the rate is in error. While one doesn't want to specifically tell the insurance company to double check their low rates you want to make sure any potential error is on their part.
 
ReaImDown said:
My car is under my grandmothers name... She doesn't have her license any more, but it brought my insurance down from $300 to $120 a month.

- mind you they know about this.

- Randy
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Everybody take note, this is why the rest of us pay over inflated premiums, to subsidize this kind of misrepresentation.
 
Platinum Cycle said:
Everybody take note, this is why the rest of us pay over inflated premiums, to subsidize this kind of misrepresentation.
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How is it misrepresentation? He stated that his broker KNOWS she does not drive it and that he does.
 
silverbullet132 said:
How is it misrepresentation? He stated that his broker KNOWS she does not drive it and that he does.
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Well I'm sure since both the insurance pro's says this isn't the way insurance works, there must be more to the story that is being left out either on here or at the insurance office.
 
silverbullet132 said:
How is it misrepresentation? He stated that his broker KNOWS she does not drive it and that he does.
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Many insurers won't even insure you if you aren't licensed for the kind of vehicle you're insuring.

I am sure there is more to the story.

Don't yuo just get the idea that everyone is trying to come up with an angle to screw the insurance company.

Any story that starts out like......."this is what I told my insurance company"......and ends with...."and my premiums were lower than they would have otherwise been"......Is most likely based on a misrepresentation of some sort.
 
Platinum Cycle said:
Everybody take note, this is why the rest of us pay over inflated premiums, to subsidize this kind of misrepresentation.
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You neglect to allow for an error by the agent. Some are dense.
As I mentioned in a previous post the client should make sure the error isn't on their own part.
My suspicion is that the agent is erroniously using the owners address.
 
I phoned my agent to try and get my motorcycle through them... I told them I had insurance through them... I gave them my insurance # and they said you are Randy? And I said yes... They do know everything.


- Randy
 
Yes, agents/brokers can (and do) screw up sometimes. Your job is to provide all relevant info and answer their questions truthfully, and their job is to take care of the quoting and policy details. If they mess up, then that's not your problem (unless you notice a blatant screw-up and don't say anything).

Randy, either your broker/agent is really messing up, there's something you're misunderstanding, or you aren't being honest with the broker/agent. How old are you such that being on your Grandma's policy brought your rate down from $300/mo to $120/mo? Do you live with your Grandma?
 
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ReaImDown said:
I'm 23, and yes... We had her move in with us so we could take care of her.


- Randy
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I was wondering if the insurance company was giving you a break because you were being nice to your grandmother but that would imply that they had hearts so, no way.
The old "If it sounds too good to be true then is usually is" phrase comes to mind. You need to find out why you're getting steak at hamburger prices without tipping off the budget butchers that they are leaving money on the table.
I would also budget for the day when the rates become more in keeping with your demographics. ie Your rates suddenly triple on renewal.
If you find a legal loophole, let us all know.
 
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