Proper right-hand turn, when bicycle v. non-bicycle lanes? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Proper right-hand turn, when bicycle v. non-bicycle lanes?

M

micelli.i

Well-known member
At a corner (dwntwn T.O.), making a right-hand turn, on a green light. People are crossing, right of way on the same green light, as me. I am waiting for pedestrians, to finish crossing.

IF there is a bike lane between my right-hand lane and the sidewalk and a cyclist comes from behind me, on the bike lane, do I wait for the cyclist to go through, or does the cyclist stop to let me make my right-hand turn?

IF there is NO bike lane b/w my right-hand lane and the sidewalk, and a cyclist comes from behind me, do I wait for the cyclist to go through, or does s/he stop to let me make my turn?

Thanks!
 
Depends on how nice you feel like being or how rushed you are...and who takes the initiative to move first. If the way is clear, I go. Always keeping an eye out for errant bikes and peds.
 
if the bike lane is dotted in the last 3-5 meters from the corner then block the cyclist, if it's solid then wait for the cyclists and pedestrians.
if no bike lane it's up to you but is still going to be your fault because they would just try to squeeze anyway...


 
*I am by no means an expert*
However, watching CP24 when they interview an officer one time (always same guy iirc) and each time he gives a different safety tip. He said the correct way is to make sure the way is clear, and then enter the bike lane to make the right. Any cyclists are then supposed to go around you on the drivers' side.
Not sure if cyclists are aware of this though.

Edit: my bad. Even though you bolded it it, I still missed the "NO" bike lane.

Sent from the Purple Zone
 
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In either case if I'm well ahead, I signal, then pull in close to the curb. That way they see the signal, where I am, and know to go around me on the left. Some of course will pop up onto the sidewalk, so you still need to keep an eye out.
 
Always keep an eye out....cyclists don't know the rules of the road. Not like they had to pass any testing to get into traffic with all the rest of the road users..... :rolleyes:
 
If there is no bike lane then according to the HTA the cyclist would be splitting lanes and in the wrong since they should be using the same lane just as we do on two wheels. However YMMV since it's always the cars fault. If there is a bike lane then you must yield to the cyclist since you are essentially crossing a lane to make the turn.
 
andrei123 said:
if the bike lane is dotted in the last 3-5 meters from the corner then block the cyclist, if it's solid then wait for the cyclists and pedestrians.
if no bike lane it's up to you but is still going to be your fault because they would just try to squeeze anyway...
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I always wondered if I have to treat the bike lane any differently if it's dashed or not. Would seem to make sense that regardless the vehicle to the intersection first has right of way and should block the bike lane but it seems I'm wrong. Just confuses the matter even more.
 
unL33T said:
I always wondered if I have to treat the bike lane any differently if it's dashed or not. Would seem to make sense that regardless the vehicle to the intersection first has right of way and should block the bike lane but it seems I'm wrong. Just confuses the matter even more.
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Personally, I block it in either case, for a right turn. It doesn't make sense to leave an opening to the right, and then take it away.
If I'm going straight, I stay away from it.

If it's at all close, I slow down and pull in behind the bike,
If I'm well ahead, I'll block it and then make the turn.
If there's a group pulled over I will try and get behind the last one.

The only concern would be a right turn on a red, when a bike is already there,
and it might be easier to wait, as cyclists aren't always known for obeying red lights.

My idea is to be predictable as to what I'm doing, and when I'm doing it.

The rules of the road don't change because someone may not know them, do they?
 
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Baggsy said:
Personally, I block it in either case, for a right turn. It doesn't make sense to leave an opening to the right, and then take it away.
If I'm going straight, I stay away from it.

If it's at all close, I slow down and pull in behind the bike,
If I'm well ahead, I'll block it and then make the turn.
If there's a group pulled over I will try and get behind the last one.

The only concern would be a right turn on a red, when a bike is already there,
and it might be easier to wait, as cyclists aren't always known for obeying red lights.

My idea is to be predictable as to what I'm doing, and when I'm doing it.

The rules of the road don't change because someone may not know them, do they?
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I do the same as you.

As for the right on red, I find it nearly impossible to do because the cyclists wait so far out into the intersection that I usually can't get around them.

More annoying on a motorcycle because you're not big enough to block the lane and cyclists will keep passing you on the right while you're trying to turn. I don't want to possibly hit one and fall over and wreck my plastics. In the car they're the one that gets wrecked if they try that, lol.
 
Thanks, folks. I'm still not clear on the answer. I sometimes do what some of the posters above said, but I'm not sure if it's proper, pursuant to the HTA.

Anecdotally, a few years ago, I was in a cage at a corner with no bike lane, about to make a right turn, after coming to a full stop at a stop sign. This chick on a bicycle, came up behind me, totally ignored the stop sign, and proceeded to ride her bike b/w my cage and the sidewalk.

I almost hit her, but managed not to (which is good b/c the cage was expensive). I honked and yelled at her. She gave me the biggest attitude, like I did something wrong. I am really concerned about some of these cyclists :/
 
esphoto said:
If there is no bike lane then according to the HTA the cyclist would be splitting lanes and in the wrong since they should be using the same lane just as we do on two wheels. However YMMV since it's always the cars fault. If there is a bike lane then you must yield to the cyclist since you are essentially crossing a lane to make the turn.
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Source?
That is completely the opposite of what the officer said on CP24. I hope he's not giving out bad advice.

Edit: not being argumentative, genuinely curious
Sent from the Purple Zone
 
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Slightly related, I was driving south on Mt Pleasant and a chick on a bike was ahead of me on a bike signaled a right turn, out and up, proceeding to make a right onto Merton.

Once on Merton she rode down the middle of the road again signaling a right. Then she turned left.

She wasn't even blond.
 
nobbie48 said:
Slightly related, I was driving south on Mt Pleasant and a chick on a bike was ahead of me on a bike signaled a right turn, out and up, proceeding to make a right onto Merton.

Once on Merton she rode down the middle of the road again signaling a right. Then she turned left.

She wasn't even blond.
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Reminds of the time I was in Agincourt. The Driver in front of me had her right indicator on and the left hand was out of the window indicating a left hand turn. Common sense is ruled out completely. What was the one thing I knew for sure???????????

The window was open.

Therefore, Always assume that the bicyclist, cager, pedestrian, is always going to do something stupid. Risking your life. Does not matter who is right and wrong. Ride to save, protect yourself. So you can go home, not in an Ambulance or a Hearse.
 
What does a solid white line mean? What does a dashed white line mean? Rhetorical. You notice that some bike lanes are solid and then approaching an intersection go to dashed lines. Once dashed lines occur, you are supposed to enter into that lane/space when making a right turn. If it is solid white, don't cross it. As for a cyclist - why on earth a cyclist would ever want to drive through an intersection to the right of vehicle turning right is just ignorant stupidity on the cyclist's part. Common sense would simply mean you go around the back of the vehicle and continue on.

As for waiting for a cyclist to drive through in front of you, I'd suggest you wait for them to go through rather than risk hitting them or getting your vehicle damaged by a raging cyclist. Regardless of if you have right of way. Pedestrians, have right of way - NOT cyclists cycling in a cross-walk. If you have properly moved into the cycle-lane you've already prevented future cyclists from passing you on the right.
 
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I don't understand why this has to be so complicated. I treat cyclist like I treat pedestrians or other drivers when merging, which is to avoid cutting them off. But if there's time to go ahead of them without making them slow down then I go. If not, I don't go.

I understand a lot of cyclists are stupid, but that doesn't have to make us stupid behind the wheel.
 
Two things come to mind. How much do you love your motorcycle or car? As a lifelong DT bicyclist, I can safely say that not only do most bicyclists not know the rules of the road but they are, as a population, almost totally unskilled in the art of the emergency stop and certainly do not practice defensive riding... so they may crash into your vehicle. I've seen it loads of times. Most cyclists barrel into intersections without even covering their brakes and expect everyone to get out of their way. I've seen them hit sidewalks, pedestrians, dogs, posts, cars, trucks, buses, garbage cans, but never seen them hit a motorcycle yet. Let's keep it that way lol.

When riding or driving, do not cut them off or they will do something stupid. Bicycles lanes do not extend into intersections. They must pass on the left by law but good luck with that. To be safe, I would not even inch ahead when a cyclist is coming towards you. Even if you are barely advancing (ie. moto is rolling ever so slightly but drivetrain disengaged), they may claim that you have cut them off. When I'm riding, I usually cut the corner a bit tighter (like a slow in, fast out line) so that I can block off the "lane" and force them to pass on my left all the while ensuring that I am stationary. Your position in this case should make it quite obvious that you are turning.

Doing all the above allows cars in the right lane get by you. If you sit in the right lane while waiting for bicycles to pass and the car behind you is not patient, then you risk the chance of getting nudged. I'd rather be sideswiped/t-boned by a bicyclist than be rear ended by a car.
 
Joe Bass said:
Source?
That is completely the opposite of what the officer said on CP24. I hope he's not giving out bad advice.

Edit: not being argumentative, genuinely curious
Sent from the Purple Zone
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Under our HTA a bicycle is considered a slow moving vehicle when using the roadway (which must be done unless the operator is under the age of 16; then they can use the sidewalk). Sources are MTO, along with my father who was auxiliary with OPP and badged with a force far north....I always enjoyed trying to stump him.

If that officer is saying otherwise than he is indeed giving out false info.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/bicycle-safety.shtml


Rules of the road

As a cyclist, you must share the road with others (e.g., cars, buses, trucks, motorcycles, etc.).
Under Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (<abbr title="Highway Traffic Act">HTA</abbr>), a bicycle is a vehicle, just like a car or truck.
Cyclists:

  • must obey all traffic laws
  • have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers
  • cannot carry passengers - if your bicycle is only meant for one person

I wish more cyclists read or were even aware of this pdf below from MTO. Should be given a copy with every bike sale.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/pdfs/cycling-skills.pdf
 
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