Power Commander V + full exhaust system QUESTION

Ramtin

Ramtin

Well-known member
Hi,

pardon my ignorance but i need to know a few things about this...

i've been told if i install a full exhaust system for my bike WITHOUT the PCV, the engine will run too lean and hot and it will cause harm over time....

1. first, i wanna know if that's true or not.... need to know what my best option is if i wanna install a full system on my bike...

i need to know what exactly the power commander does... all i know is that it adjusts the fuel to air ratio... but what is exactly happening and why is it so important to adjust the bike with PCV? also, how hard is it to work with the PCV? is it recommended to get this done by a professional or is it possible to do this on your own if you have half a brain? lol

2. i've also been told if i cut my 2013's muffler and add a slip-on, there will be excessive heat through the header... if that's true, can the POWER COMMANDER take care of this?

for reference: bike is a 2013 ER6N.... and i'm looking at Two Brothers full exhaust system

your help is really appreciated....
 
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I'm no expert on this but I did a lot of research prior to purchasing a bike with any exhaust modifications.

My old bike, the GS500F, was a carbbed bike. The bike was never tuned to use the slip-on it came with. Eventually this lead to some weird **** happening (like excessively long warm ups and stalling in the cold). I'm not 100% sure if this would happen to your bike as it isn't carbbed but it'll give you some idea of the kind of crap that can happen.

Your bike is fuel injected, as is my new one. The fuel to air ratio is controlled by a computer. If the ratio is incorrect, you run the risk of running too lean or too rich (Google to see the differences). From my experiences and research, lean is bad and full systems allow more air in the bike (making you run lean).

The computer mentioned above can either be:

A. Flashed (like flashing your BIOs on your computer)
B. Deal with a middle man

The Power Commander is this middle man. It allows you to set the ratio without having to flash the computer each time...so it is quite convenient.

From my understanding the PC site has user submitted "maps" that you can use. See if someone has submitted a map for a Ninja650/ER6N with a Two Bros full exhaust. That should work (I may be wrong but my Google-fu pointed at the 650 and ER6N as the same bike but different styling).

Getting it professionally tuned requires $$$. They have to throw it on a dyno and keep playing with settings to make sure it isn't too lean/rich. I've heard it can cost from $200-$300.

Again if I am wrong, someone correct me!

EDIT: Very bottom, the map exists. PC5 only no 3.
 
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油井緋色;1963935 said:
I'm no expert on this but I did a lot of research prior to purchasing a bike with any exhaust modifications.

My old bike, the GS500F, was a carbbed bike. The bike was never tuned to use the slip-on it came with. Eventually this lead to some weird **** happening (like excessively long warm ups and stalling in the cold). I'm not 100% sure if this would happen to your bike as it isn't carbbed but it'll give you some idea of the kind of crap that can happen.

Your bike is fuel injected, as is my new one. The fuel to air ratio is controlled by a computer. If the ratio is incorrect, you run the risk of running too lean or too rich (Google to see the differences). From my experiences and research, lean is bad and full systems allow more air in the bike (making you run lean).

The computer mentioned above can either be:

A. Flashed (like flashing your BIOs on your computer)
B. Deal with a middle man

The Power Commander is this middle man. It allows you to set the ratio without having to flash the computer each time...so it is quite convenient.

From my understanding the PC site has user submitted "maps" that you can use. See if someone has submitted a map for a Ninja650/ER6N with a Two Bros full exhaust. That should work (I may be wrong but my Google-fu pointed at the 650 and ER6N as the same bike but different styling).

Getting it professionally tuned requires $$$. They have to throw it on a dyno and keep playing with settings to make sure it isn't too lean/rich. I've heard it can cost from $200-$300.

Again if I am wrong, someone correct me!

EDIT: Very bottom, the map exists. PC5 only no 3.
Click to expand...


Just a quick note, if you use the PCV maps posted on their website, they run slightly rich by default (which is fine and better than running too lean).
Only way to get it perfect for your bike is to run a dyno. Otherwise just use one of the default maps.
 
Simple answer. If you open the exhaust and allow more air to flow through the engine the fuel needs also to increase accordingly. Modern fuel injected bikes can only compensate so much they are designed to deal with engine loads temperatures and air density etc. They cannot compensate generally with opening the aspiration of the engine using a full pipe and hi flowing air filter.
The PC or similar device allows for engine fuel mapping to deal with this. If you really want to do it right add a wide band oxy sensor and make it closed loop to program itself. Otherwise you have to add a map. You can download maps online but most will be not be right they generally need to be tweaked. Now none of this is very difficult however by the questions you are asking tells me that you dont have a working knowledge of these systems and you may be better to have it done on a dyno with a sniffer.
If you lean the bike out too much (not adding the fuel) it will cause excessive combustion chamber temps and can cause the burning of valve edges and in severe cases hole a piston.
 
kneedragger88 said:
Simple answer. If you open the exhaust and allow more air to flow through the engine the fuel needs also to increase accordingly. Modern fuel injected bikes can only compensate so much they are designed to deal with engine loads temperatures and air density etc. They cannot compensate generally with opening the aspiration of the engine using a full pipe and hi flowing air filter.
The PC or similar device allows for engine fuel mapping to deal with this. If you really want to do it right add a wide band oxy sensor and make it closed loop to program itself. Otherwise you have to add a map. You can download maps online but most will be not be right they generally need to be tweaked. Now none of this is very difficult however by the questions you are asking tells me that you dont have a working knowledge of these systems and you may be better to have it done on a dyno with a sniffer.
If you lean the bike out too much (not adding the fuel) it will cause excessive combustion chamber temps and can cause the burning of valve edges and in severe cases hole a piston.
Click to expand...


no i totally get it now...
auto-tune from the PCV works great... get the right map and upload... not rocket science!
thanks for all your info guys...

the map will definitely not be 100% accurate but MUCH better than not adjusting at all! it does the job.
 
actually Auto tune for PCV will make it 100% accurate, or close to it for your bike....thats what it does, it analyzes the a/f ratio and adjust the fuel trim maps. Previous PCIII's and PCV without autotune just alter the stock injector pulses. For example.
ECU tells the injector to open for 50ms when at 10% throttle opening, 30C inlet air temp and 4000 RPM. With a high flow exhaust and intake, 50ms is not enough time to inject enough fuel in the air stream. PCIII takes that signal and adjusts it according to what YOU programmed it to do.

If you ever watch Dyno runs to program a Power Commander, they would run the bike through the rpm at 5% throttle, the A/F meter stuck in the exhaust would read the a/f ratio throughout the rpm, you then tell the computer what A/F ratio you would like to see and it generates new cell numbers. Same thing at 10% throttle all the way up to 100%. Really good tuners wont just set one a/f ratio for the entire band but alter it and fine tune it. This takes time and $$$ but gives you the absolute best driveability, fuel consumption and power.
 
Red_Liner740 said:
actually Auto tune for PCV will make it 100% accurate, or close to it for your bike....thats what it does, it analyzes the a/f ratio and adjust the fuel trim maps. Previous PCIII's and PCV without autotune just alter the stock injector pulses. For example.
ECU tells the injector to open for 50ms when at 10% throttle opening, 30C inlet air temp and 4000 RPM. With a high flow exhaust and intake, 50ms is not enough time to inject enough fuel in the air stream. PCIII takes that signal and adjusts it according to what YOU programmed it to do.

If you ever watch Dyno runs to program a Power Commander, they would run the bike through the rpm at 5% throttle, the A/F meter stuck in the exhaust would read the a/f ratio throughout the rpm, you then tell the computer what A/F ratio you would like to see and it generates new cell numbers. Same thing at 10% throttle all the way up to 100%. Really good tuners wont just set one a/f ratio for the entire band but alter it and fine tune it. This takes time and $$$ but gives you the absolute best driveability, fuel consumption and power.
Click to expand...

I see...
but even without the auto-tune, if I install the full two brothers system and get the two brothers map from their website (which is available), I should be good to upload right?
 
Yes, but it wont be as good as a dyno tuned or auto tuned setup. It will def be a huge improvement over running it stock.

I had an 08 gsxr 750 that i put an 06 header with no cat and a Akra shorty pipe on it. It ran with no PCIII but it bogged at bottom end, wanted to stutter, just wasnt pleasant to cruise in. Uploaded an 08 gsxr750 map for full akrapovic exhaust, as there was no map for my actual setup. Ran good..a bit rich on top end but nothing drastic.
 
Ramtin said:
Hi,

pardon my ignorance but i need to know a few things about this...

i've been told if i install a full exhaust system for my bike WITHOUT the PCV, the engine will run too lean and hot and it will cause harm over time....

1. first, i wanna know if that's true or not.... need to know what my best option is if i wanna install a full system on my bike...

i need to know what exactly the power commander does... all i know is that it adjusts the fuel to air ratio... but what is exactly happening and why is it so important to adjust the bike with PCV? also, how hard is it to work with the PCV? is it recommended to get this done by a professional or is it possible to do this on your own if you have half a brain? lol

2. i've also been told if i cut my 2013's muffler and add a slip-on, there will be excessive heat through the header... if that's true, can the POWER COMMANDER take care of this?

for reference: bike is a 2013 ER6N.... and i'm looking at Two Brothers full exhaust system

your help is really appreciated....
Click to expand...

go on ebay, get yourself a used slip on and call it a day.
 
Paul1000RR said:
johnny has been know to modify a few parts here and there ;)
Click to expand...

ohhhhh i see! lol .... so Johnny, what do you think is the best way to do this? i decided on a full system with power commander.... would you say that's the proper way?
 
It's a lot of money to put into an ER6N and you won't get much of it back if you sell the bike. Anyways, You'll be fine with adding a full system and a PCV. Downloading the free map will get you about 80% there in terms of accuracy. Head to a dyno shop with some money for a custom tune to get the extra 20% or be happy with what you have.
 
you need to make sure your target A/F is set where it needs to be, my buddys bike with the auto tune was trying to target A/F of 15.9 !!!
im running my r1 pc5 with uploaded map and its really close
 
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