Possibly stolen bike? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Possibly stolen bike?

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randy lahey

New member
I bought a bike this summer that was a bit rough for a winter project. I recently started on it and first thing was to powder coat the frame. I stripped it all down to the bare metal, and in doing so, I noticed what appears to be the VIN number in the head tube cut out, and a new one welded in. The frame was painted when I got it, so it looked normal on the outside, but inside the head tube I can see a cut/welded square, and on the outside the weld is cleaned up and smoothed over so the paint covers it up and its not noticeable. Obviously the VIN number is clean, but I'm thinking it was a from a wrecked bike possibly put into a stolen bike. The history of it shows that it was owned by state farm, then a motorcycle salvage place (in Toronto), then to someone else. What are my best options? I'm a little reluctant to call the police because I don't want it taken as stolen property and be out what I paid for it, but on the other hand, I don't want to let it slide because I've had a bike stolen before and it sucks. Any thoughts?
 
randy lahey said:
I bought a bike this summer that was a bit rough for a winter project. I recently started on it and first thing was to powder coat the frame. I stripped it all down to the bare metal, and in doing so, I noticed what appears to be the VIN number in the head tube cut out, and a new one welded in. The frame was painted when I got it, so it looked normal on the outside, but inside the head tube I can see a cut/welded square, and on the outside the weld is cleaned up and smoothed over so the paint covers it up and its not noticeable. Obviously the VIN number is clean, but I'm thinking it was a from a wrecked bike possibly put into a stolen bike. The history of it shows that it was owned by state farm, then a motorcycle salvage place (in Toronto), then to someone else. What are my best options? I'm a little reluctant to call the police because I don't want it taken as stolen property and be out what I paid for it, but on the other hand, I don't want to let it slide because I've had a bike stolen before and it sucks. Any thoughts?
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I'd just be quiet :)
 
If it shows that it was owned by state farm then a salvage place then the bike was likely written off due to a collision and someone swapped the vin. But it "appears" that they used a VIN from a salvage bike. Have you transferred the ownership as yet? You may find it is listed as a "salvage title" meaning it won't be road legal. Rebranded or rebuilt bikes are not able to be registered as road legal here in Ontario. This would make no sense at all to have done this type of "vin swap" Whoever did it, either planned to just rip off someone like you or they have no idea what they were doing. They could have got a "clean frame", or if they were going to all the trouble to weld in a new vin they could have gotten a "clean vin"

If you haven't yet tried to register the bike, it may go down one of three ways.

1.The vin will come back as rebuilt or rebranded. Meaning your still out the money you paid for the bike unless it is your intent to use the bike as a track only bike. From what you have described this is the most likely outcome.
2. The vin won't "match" the bike, (IE the vin is for a ninja 750 and your registering a ninja 600), which still means you won't be able to register and insure the bike.
3. The MTO lists nothing unusual, Which then likely means your into the scenario you fear, you have a stolen bike with a swapped out VIN. There is more than one vin on a bike do the other vins match? In this scenario if you contact the police they will likely sieze the bike for further investigation meaning whoever you bought it from will have to answer some questions and as you may know you too could face a charge of possession of stolen property.

Seeing you have said you have already previously bought a stolen bike. May I recommend you might want to be a little more cautious as to who you are buying from.

Was it from the UVIP that you saw it was owned by state farm and a salvage place?? In future if your looking at a used bike and it has been registered to an insurance company and a salvage yard. RUN away and don't buy that bike, (again unless your looking for something for the parts or track). It "may" appear to be a good bargain, and it is for a reason.Do you want to be riding a bike that you have no idea how it was fixed or what damage it may have had, (IE bent frame, bent forks, etc etc).

randy lahey said:
I bought a bike this summer that was a bit rough for a winter project. I recently started on it and first thing was to powder coat the frame. I stripped it all down to the bare metal, and in doing so, I noticed what appears to be the VIN number in the head tube cut out, and a new one welded in. The frame was painted when I got it, so it looked normal on the outside, but inside the head tube I can see a cut/welded square, and on the outside the weld is cleaned up and smoothed over so the paint covers it up and its not noticeable. Obviously the VIN number is clean, but I'm thinking it was a from a wrecked bike possibly put into a stolen bike. The history of it shows that it was owned by state farm, then a motorcycle salvage place (in Toronto), then to someone else. What are my best options? I'm a little reluctant to call the police because I don't want it taken as stolen property and be out what I paid for it, but on the other hand, I don't want to let it slide because I've had a bike stolen before and it sucks. Any thoughts?
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@hedo2002, he hasn't bought a stolen bike before, he's had a bike stolen from him. He has a conscience.
OP, hope you don't get screwed.
Thinking out loud, could you just buy a new/ used clean frame since you are doing a rebuild?

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy far, far away using Tapatalk
 
Thanks JB. Your right I read it wrong. I too hope he hasn't gotten screwed over but it appears that may be the case. It is too bad others don't have the same level of intergrity. But in this case he shouldn't feel too badly for the previous owner if it is a stolen bike, hoepfully they got the right amount from insurance, (at least they had theft insurance).


Joe Bass said:
@hedo2002, he hasn't bought a stolen bike before, he's had a bike stolen from him. He has a conscience.
OP, hope you don't get screwed.
Thinking out loud, could you just buy a new/ used clean frame since you are doing a rebuild?

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy far, far away using Tapatalk
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Thanks JB I just read the "I have h
 
Any concerns about the structural integrity of the head tube after it being cut and welded? I would have.
 
I definitely didn't do my due diligence when buying this bike. Lesson learned. It was rough, and barely ran, so I bought it "as is" what I thought was cheap. It has turned out to not be a deal at all. I didn't get the UVIP until after I bought it, which is when I noticed it had been owned by state farm and a salvage business. The title is not branded, and licencing it was no problem. Just an assumption, but seems most likely that the salvage place likely did the work of swapping the VIN. At this point, I know the logical thing is to pretend that I never seen that and move on. I'm not worried about the structural integrity being compromised, as the bike is a '98, and it as owned by the salvage yard in '02, so if it's made it this far I think it's ok. But as far as putting work into this thing, it's been quite a disappointment, and I wouldn't ant to just sell it and pass off the problems with it. Is there another VIN on the frame or any other way to find a VIN mismatch? At this point I'm just curious about what happened. Also, if it was the salvage yard that swapped the VIN, this place is still in business.
 
It is fairly likely that the salvage yard combined a bent frame with a good ownership with another one that had a good frame but bad ownership.

Has it been one private owner since '02 or thereabouts?

Bikes will generally have the VIN stamped into the steering head and also printed on the CMVSS compliance label (a sticker on the frame). Is that sticker present? The engine will generally have its own serial number stamped into the crankcases somewhere. If you could tell us what make and model, perhaps someone here could direct you to where the compliance label and the engine number are supposed to be. The engine number and the VIN may or may not coincide (I am talking about from when the bike was originally built - not all manufacturers use the VIN as the engine number) but even if they don't coincide, the manufacturer should be able to identify which VIN was originally associated with the engine number. (Whether they will give you that information is quite another matter)
 
It's been through several owners since then. The compliance sticker is there and it matches the number on the frame. The engine and VIN numbers are different all together. I'm hoping I can call kawi and see if they can tell what bike the motor was installed in, see if its a match, and if not check the history of that bike. At this point, I'm just curious.
 
I wouldn't sweat it but certainly appreciate your concern and willingness to do the right thing. If it was stolen, it happened years ago and is long forgotten, paid for and over with. Carry on with your original intent and chalk it up to experience.

If anyone takes anything away from this it should be get the UVIP first.
 
JZ67 said:
I wouldn't sweat it but certainly appreciate your concern and willingness to do the right thing. If it was stolen, it happened years ago and is long forgotten, paid for and over with. Carry on with your original intent and chalk it up to experience.

If anyone takes anything away from this it should be get the UVIP first.
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Didn't some guy in California get his Corvette back after it was stolen 30 years ago?
 
randy lahey said:
It's been through several owners since then. The compliance sticker is there and it matches the number on the frame. The engine and VIN numbers are different all together. I'm hoping I can call kawi and see if they can tell what bike the motor was installed in, see if its a match, and if not check the history of that bike. At this point, I'm just curious.
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You might be able to take the engine VIN and get a UVIP for it.
 
randy lahey said:
I definitely didn't do my due diligence when buying this bike. Lesson learned. It was rough, and barely ran, so I bought it "as is" what I thought was cheap. It has turned out to not be a deal at all. I didn't get the UVIP until after I bought it, which is when I noticed it had been owned by state farm and a salvage business. The title is not branded, and licencing it was no problem. Just an assumption, but seems most likely that the salvage place likely did the work of swapping the VIN. At this point, I know the logical thing is to pretend that I never seen that and move on. I'm not worried about the structural integrity being compromised, as the bike is a '98, and it as owned by the salvage yard in '02, so if it's made it this far I think it's ok. But as far as putting work into this thing, it's been quite a disappointment, and I wouldn't ant to just sell it and pass off the problems with it. Is there another VIN on the frame or any other way to find a VIN mismatch? At this point I'm just curious about what happened. Also, if it was the salvage yard that swapped the VIN, this place is still in business.
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Salvage businesses frequently purchase bikes, that have been damaged and then claimed by insurance companies, at auction. One of my own was back on the road within a couple of months, when there was no way in hell that the frame was usable. They take the parts from several bikes and rebuild them, using a clean titled frame. Or perhaps what you saw on yours.
 
faaack.

how much effort and cash have you put into the bike?

its illegal just to have a bike with an altered VIN - stolen or not.

its a all or nothing decision - police / MTO will not let you register that bike if you make a full disclosure. Say nothing or buy a new frame with clean a VIN.

faaaack...

edit - feel for you brother, best of luck to you.
 
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