Penalties: Traffic vs Provincial Offences. | GTAMotorcycle.com

Penalties: Traffic vs Provincial Offences.

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nobbie48

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If a driver forgets to signal and makes an left turn killing someone the typical fine is around a grand because there was no intent to kill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/06/pro-teck-electric_n_9625702.html

If an electrician makes a couple of mistakes killing someone the fine is over a half a million. I don't have the full story on this but if the electrician is just an employee the owner loses his business and the electrician just gets another job.

Apparently the senior got serious burns and died in hospital a few weeks later. IIRC the rule of thumb is if the victim's age plus percentage of body burnt = 100, fatality is the norm.

The work was also being done without a permit and therefore without an inspection, not that inspectors catch every error.

If you inadvertently allow your licence to lapse you don't suddenly become a traffic monster but the courts will make it look that way.
 
I am not getting your analogy.
 
wtf, heated floor installed by an electrician that got hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns?????

It seems the company doesn't exist anymore, was this fine amount just to create headlines? Company seems to have been founded in 1993, that's a long time in business as electricians if you aren't getting permits and inspections.
 
kellen said:
hth
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For me it would be similar to a someone not getting a driving permit and then running someone over, rather than forgetting to signal. Do you see my point?
 
GreyGhost said:
wtf, heated floor installed by an electrician that got hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns?????

It seems the company doesn't exist anymore, was this fine amount just to create headlines? Company seems to have been founded in 1993, that's a long time in business as electricians if you aren't getting permits and inspections.
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I'm fairly familiar with floor warming systems and theoretically the floor could have reached 190°F due to the cable being operated on 240 volts with no sensor. I would need the manufacturer's data to confirm numbers.

The voltage connect error is not rare as heating loads are usually 240 volts so the electricians tend to default to that supply. Reading the fine print can make a difference.

My main point is that with a motor vehicle (HTA) you get a fine of a thou or so for accidentally killing someone but under the provincial offenses act you get a fine of $537,500.00. One seems excessively light and the other excessively heavy in comparison, not that it's easy to put a value on human life.

ESA has been very vocal about getting permits for all electrical work. Did they exert some pressure to make a point?

I'm not sure of intent.

Did the contractor try to save a couple of hundred dollars in fees or did a secretary forget to send in an inspection request?

Was the owner on site or were the errors at the hands of a inept employee who walks away free?
 
Baggsy said:
For me it would be similar to a someone not getting a driving permit and then running someone over, rather than forgetting to signal. Do you see my point?
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Not having a driving permit implies lack of skill. It would be more like having an crash when the vehicle didn't have a current sticker. It was on the road illegally and the repercussions of any traffic offence would be magnified.

Assuming that the electricians were licensed it would indicate that they were skilled but the point I am trying to make is that the lack of a piece of paper doesn't make a person dangerous but it does make them illegal. I wonder what the fine would be if a permit had been in place?
 
A point that may have escaped many is this.
No matter who installed the heating, it was supposed to be done under the supervision of a Master Electrician.
Does this person still have his papers? Is he still working as an electrician in Ontario?
Why do I suspect the answer to both these questions is YES.
 
statsman said:
A point that may have escaped many is this.
No matter who installed the heating, it was supposed to be done under the supervision of a Master Electrician.
Does this person still have his papers? Is he still working as an electrician in Ontario?
Why do I suspect the answer to both these questions is YES.
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It looks like the owner of the company (Tony Merante) still has his papers. I have no idea who the actual electrician was that did the work.

You can check people here: (the person listed as Antonio Merante seems to correspond to info I can find for the owner of Pro-teck)
www.collegeoftrades.ca/public-member-profile

As a side note, it sucks that there is an unrelated company in Richmond Hill called Pro-Tek electric. You get sucked into this mess by association, I can't believe the original company (whichever it was) didn't try to get the other to change their name.
 
Not sure comparing two completely unrelated provincial acts, is an appropriate comparison. The new fines for say "workers at height" regulations would have been a more appropriate comparison. Or a comparison to workplace safety act then it is to the HTA. There can a be a few charges under the HTA which result in death with similar fines, (to the other HTA regs). It is likely that the prosecutor and the court felt a "message" needed to be sent in this case so the fine is at the higher end of the spectrum. Just as it can be with some HTA cases.
 
The fine includes a 25 per cent surcharge, which goes to the Ontario government to assist victims of crime.
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Lol why do I get the feeling that not even 1% of that 25% will go to anything that will actually help the victims.. 99% of it will be ****** away in the direction of the corporate friends of the Liberal Party :cool:

As for the Richmond Hill contracting business.. Depends on how good they are. Any good tradesman mostly operates on word of mouth and refuses more work than is offered to him/her.
 
Enforcement of all provincial offences in Ontario comes under the Provincial Offences Act.
Violations of different provincial statutes comes under different forms.
An HTA violation is one form, a bylaw infraction is another and a parking tag a third.
No doubt a violation under the Communications Act of Ontario would be a different form again.
The Provincial Offences Act is simply an administrative statute.
It states (among other things) that all violations are summary conviction and that a Justice of the Peace has absolute jurisdiction.
Penalties for conviction are contained in the actual statute you are charged with breaking.
 
statsman said:
A point that may have escaped many is this.
No matter who installed the heating, it was supposed to be done under the supervision of a Master Electrician.
Does this person still have his papers? Is he still working as an electrician in Ontario?
Why do I suspect the answer to both these questions is YES.
Click to expand...

Just a point of clarification, a "Master Electrician" in Ontario is not permitted to do any electrical work (or supervise unlicensed electricians, guys working toward their license) unless they are a Licensed Electrician (technically a "certificate of qualification authorizing the carrying out of the electrical work").

A Master Electrician in Ontario may be a P.Eng, or C.E.T. with three years experience in the area that passed the master's exam. They can also be a Licensed Electrician that massed the master exam but they do not have to be. The master can pull permits etc. and supervise licensed guys but they need a license to do any work or supervise unlicensed guys.

Very convoluted set of rules...
 
backmarkerducati said:
Just a point of clarification, a "Master Electrician" in Ontario is not permitted to do any electrical work (or supervise unlicensed electricians, guys working toward their license) unless they are a Licensed Electrician (technically a "certificate of qualification authorizing the carrying out of the electrical work").

A Master Electrician in Ontario may be a P.Eng, or C.E.T. with three years experience in the area that passed the master's exam. They can also be a Licensed Electrician that massed the master exam but they do not have to be. The master can pull permits etc. and supervise licensed guys but they need a license to do any work or supervise unlicensed guys.

Very convoluted set of rules...
Click to expand...

Who knew? I would love to take the test just for fun, but sadly I am never going to have the 3 years experience.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Just a point of clarification, a "Master Electrician" in Ontario is not permitted to do any electrical work (or supervise unlicensed electricians, guys working toward their license) unless they are a Licensed Electrician (technically a "certificate of qualification authorizing the carrying out of the electrical work").

A Master Electrician in Ontario may be a P.Eng, or C.E.T. with three years experience in the area that passed the master's exam. They can also be a Licensed Electrician that massed the master exam but they do not have to be. The master can pull permits etc. and supervise licensed guys but they need a license to do any work or supervise unlicensed guys.

Very convoluted set of rules...
Click to expand...

Unless something has changed in the last couple of years you don't need to be an electrician to install floor warming cables but only an electrician can hook them up. A large percentage of them are installed by tile setters or labourers.
 
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