PC necessary??? Improved airflow, engine longevity

T

tbell_1

Member
Plan on getting a k&n filter and a slip on (probably Hindle) after I solve the starting issue in my other thread. 

I know I won`t notice any performance gains with this combo, maybe minor ones if I buy a PC and pay someone to Dyno Tune it.

My question is this though, if I improve the air flow with the K&N and exhaust, it will lean out my a/f ratio, which can be bad for the engine (burnt valves? yikes!) Would a power commander be a good idea, in the interest of engine longevity, or would it be a waste of money? Or what about the other controllers, Cobra, Juicebox, Bazaaz, etc..or am I completely off base, and can the bikes ecm calibrate for the improved airflow - I`m told not, since theirs no O2 sensor...
 
tbell_1 said:
Plan on getting a k&n filter and a slip on (probably Hindle) after I solve the starting issue in my other thread. 

I know I won`t notice any performance gains with this combo, maybe minor ones if I buy a PC and pay someone to Dyno Tune it.

My question is this though, if I improve the air flow with the K&N and exhaust, it will lean out my a/f ratio, which can be bad for the engine (burnt valves? yikes!) Would a power commander be a good idea, in the interest of engine longevity, or would it be a waste of money? Or what about the other controllers, Cobra, Juicebox, Bazaaz, etc..or am I completely off base, and can the bikes ecm calibrate for the improved airflow - I`m told not, since theirs no O2 sensor...
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A PVC Power commander with the proper map for your bike downloaded from their site, would really help the performance. IMO a good investment specially if you have a slip on.
 
What's the bike in question.

A closed loop with a O2 sensor is the best...
 
ZX600 said:
A PVC Power commander with the proper map for your bike downloaded from their site, would really help the performance. IMO a good investment specially if you have a slip on.
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This is incorrect, it will do very little.

The K&N filter will also reduce air flow on that particular bike(F4i) it's been proven a number of times

Stick with the OEM filter.

Save your money and spend it on yourself, and your riding skills.
 
Neither the air filter nor the muffler will have any appreciable effect on how the engine runs. They generally don't "improve airflow". Therefore they won't make it run lean.
 
reciprocity said:
This is incorrect, it will do very little.

The K&N filter will also reduce air flow on that particular bike(F4i) it's been proven a number of times

Stick with the OEM filter.

Save your money and spend it on yourself, and your riding skills.
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i agree, save your money
 
anytime you change the exhaust and air filter you should to a download to the ECU. Im not curtain if the K&N air filter flows more, but i believe it would flow better then a paper element filter. but the nice thing is that with a K&N is that they are washable with lifetime warrentee
 
Your "belief" does not agree with actual observation (in many instances).

Yes, you can hold a K&N filter up to sunlight and see through it (and think about the size of dirt particles that could pass through)

But take a typical stock air filter and count the pleats, and take a comparable K&N and count the pleats. Typically the stock-style air filter has at least 2 times and frequently 3 times the area of filter media ...
 
reciprocity said:
This is incorrect, it will do very little.

The K&N filter will also reduce air flow on that particular bike(F4i) it's been proven a number of times

Stick with the OEM filter.

Save your money and spend it on yourself, and your riding skills.
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Interesting. Can you elaborate on why would it do very little?

My bike became a lot more smooth and overall gave it a different feel while riding it. Is it because of the type of bike or because you believe a PC just overall doesn't work?

Maybe within the context of his question a PC may not be the best option but it will improve performance.

let me know
 
tbell_1 said:
Plan on getting a k&n filter and a slip on (probably Hindle) after I solve the starting issue in my other thread. 

I know I won`t notice any performance gains with this combo, maybe minor ones if I buy a PC and pay someone to Dyno Tune it.

My question is this though, if I improve the air flow with the K&N and exhaust, it will lean out my a/f ratio, which can be bad for the engine (burnt valves? yikes!) Would a power commander be a good idea, in the interest of engine longevity, or would it be a waste of money? Or what about the other controllers, Cobra, Juicebox, Bazaaz, etc..or am I completely off base, and can the bikes ecm calibrate for the improved airflow - I`m told not, since theirs no O2 sensor...
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Don't bother with the PC unless the bike feels like utter crap. The amount that a slipon and air filter makes affects your fueling will have minimal effect on the wear and tear of your motor. If your valves melt, it won't be because of these minor mods. Most bikes come from the factory a tad rich anyways.
 
ZX600 said:
Interesting. Can you elaborate on why would it do very little?

My bike became a lot more smooth and overall gave it a different feel while riding it. Is it because of the type of bike or because you believe a PC just overall doesn't work?

Maybe within the context of his question a PC may not be the best option but it will improve performance.

let me know
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You have to elaborate on the type of bike you have.....parts etc
 
I had a 03 f4i with k&n and hindle titanium exhaust. There was no noticeable gain in power and after checking the plugs the bike had not leaned out enough for me to worry about. Only thing it gained was noise. Loved the exhaust noise but the k&n was pretty much a waste of money. I was planning on getting a pc only to fix the flat spot in the lower rpm but ended up selling the bike before getting one.
 
ZX600 said:
Gsxr 750 2010, M4 slip on
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It makes a big difference if you're just swapping the can or if you're also deleting the cat and/or a exhaust valve. Just the can and most times you don't need to make any fueling changes. Getting rid of a valve (the SET valve on the Suzuki's for example) is going to be a more dramatic change. There's no cat on my '06 but as soon as I got rid of the SET valve (a yosh slip-on exhaust) the bike ran rough low-mid rpm and there was now a large flat-spot low rpm (both were very noticeable as soon as I did the exhuast swap). Adding a PCIII fixed it with just the appropriate downloaded map.

And to add for the OP, keep with a stock air filter. More often than not they have better airflow and filtration.
 
casacrow said:
Ususally a tad lean in my experience.
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2004 ZX10R extremely rich ... like 11:1 air/fuel ratio when cruising in top gear at 90 km/h, like 7 - 8 litres per 100 km even without using the throttle too much.

It's not the only one that's like that. (At wide open throttle, it's very close to where it should be, but at part throttle, the stock calibration was obnoxiously rich.)

I have a Power Commander on it even though the engine is otherwise completely stock with the standard air filter and the standard exhaust system, catalytic converter and all. It now uses 5.0 - 5.5 L/100 km and will go about 60 km further before the low-fuel lamp comes on and the engine oil no longer stinks like fuel when drained, thanks to a very carefully developed map that I did myself with the aid of an air/fuel ratio gauge. None of the standardized maps that you can download for this bike from PowerCommander or elsewhere, address this issue.
 
Brian P said:
the engine oil no longer stinks like fuel when drained, thanks to a very carefully developed map that I did myself with the aid of an air/fuel ratio gauge. .
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Wow, not good since you expect the manufacturer to know better. Doesn't gas in oil affect the viscosity of the motor oil and decrease the protection of the oil?
 
ZX600 said:
Interesting. Can you elaborate on why would it do very little?

My bike became a lot more smooth and overall gave it a different feel while riding it. Is it because of the type of bike or because you believe a PC just overall doesn't work?

Maybe within the context of his question a PC may not be the best option but it will improve performance.

let me know
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I raced the bike in question, the PC didn't offer gains in street trim to warrant the costs, and most others were similar.

The fueling became an issue when more modifications were done.
 
RockerGuy said:
Wow, not good since you expect the manufacturer to know better. Doesn't gas in oil affect the viscosity of the motor oil and decrease the protection of the oil?
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Yes. This, and getting better range and mileage (and the ability to hook up a quick-shifter) were the motivations for getting a Power Commander for this bike. No real difference in power output - full throttle calibration was okay, it was just the part throttle area that's out to lunch.

A good many tuners don't know how to set part-throttle up properly, and most people who buy a PowerCommander won't pay the true labour cost for doing it. Gotta do it yourself.
 
I installed a full exhaust on my 04 zx10 and downloaded the map from pc. It was terrible to ride below 6000rpm and above 10,000rpm it fell flat on it's face. I leaned things out just a touch in those ranges and it's 1000 times better but not perfect. Those free maps are just a bandaid till you get it tuned properly.
 
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