Opinions? Use synthetic car oil?

I

ike

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Hey all,

I'm coming up on an oil change on my Concours 14, so I had another lookie in my owner's manual to see what the oil specs were. Previous oil changes were done by the dealership using Kawasaki synthetic oil. Surprisingly, the manual says nothing about using any special type of oil in the engine. My previous bikes (Yamaha FZ1 and a couple of FJR 1300s) specifically stated not to use any oils that were "energy conserving" (presumably because it is too slippery and would cause clutch slippage) which pretty much ruled out using oil made for cars but there is no such warning in the Kawasaki owner's manual.

Any opinions? Should I try using a jug of synthetic oil that is not motorcycle-specific? It would save a ton of cash (with motorcycle-specific synthetic oils running around $20/litre and all.)
 
Just go get a 4L jug of motul 5100 from FSmotorcycle or some other store, its about $30-35, much less then $20/litre.
 
ike said:
Hey all,

I'm coming up on an oil change on my Concours 14, so I had another lookie in my owner's manual to see what the oil specs were. Previous oil changes were done by the dealership using Kawasaki synthetic oil. Surprisingly, the manual says nothing about using any special type of oil in the engine. My previous bikes (Yamaha FZ1 and a couple of FJR 1300s) specifically stated not to use any oils that were "energy conserving" (presumably because it is too slippery and would cause clutch slippage) which pretty much ruled out using oil made for cars but there is no such warning in the Kawasaki owner's manual.

Any opinions? Should I try using a jug of synthetic oil that is not motorcycle-specific? It would save a ton of cash (with motorcycle-specific synthetic oils running around $20/litre and all.)
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Most bikes have the clutch in with the engine oil. Your bike has a separate gear box/transmission it wouldn't require the additives in motorcycle synthetic oil.
 
Hi ItIs! Thanks for your input!

I am not sure if my bike has a separate gear box... I think it is just the standard motorcycle all in one engine-gearbox-clutch all using the same oil. There is no mention in the owners manual about changing oil in the gearbox, so I presume that it is using the engine oil like most other bikes. Not sure - I will look into it further. Thanks for the info!
 
Your bike has an integral gearbox with wet clutch.

Suggestion: Shell Rotella T6 5w40. It's relatively inexpensive ($35-ish for a 4 litre jug), you can get it at Canadian Tire and Wal-Mart, and it meets the JASO-MA standard that your owner's manual calls for (this is a standard that is applicable to wet clutches in this type of application).
 
Thanks Brian!

I've had another look around based on Silverbullet's suggestion above.... found that GP bikes has the oil and I am pretty sure they will price match Flying Squirrel. Combine that with their Wag Jag deal ($25 for a $50 voucher), and it looks like the oil isn't going to cost much more than $25 for a 4 litre jug of Motul 300V 10W40 (which is quite a deal, I would say!) With that price, it is worth sticking with the motorcycle-specific oil rather than taking a chance with an "energy conserving" automotive oil that might degrade the clutch.

Thanks for the advice... it is much appreciated!
 
Motul 300V is a racing oil, not meant for street use. If you want full synthetic get 7100.
 
Okay... getting confused now....

I'll admit that I am not familiar with Motul products, but ..... If the oil will stand up to the rigors of racing (high rpm, high heat, etc.) would that not make it a higher quality oil and thus better for street use? Back in the day, racers would usually use a single viscosity oil to cover the environmental conditions they would encounter during that race, but today's advanced multigrades have put an end to that. So, here is where the confusion sets in...if the oil was good enough to put up with the punishing conditions that racing imposes, why would the 300V oil not be suitable for everyday street use?

Here's a quote from STG... http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Detail.bok?no=9400
Motul 300V uses Double Ester Technology, and offers 0% shear loss. Double Ester Technology is superior to any previous forms of ester used in motor oils, and offers the most protection against friction inside of an engine. Motul 300v is designed for ultra high performance and racing use, but can be used in any high-reving, naturally aspirated or forced induction engine applications.

Here is a Q&A from Witchkraft Racing on Motul Oils. http://www.witchkraftracing.com/?p=301

Confused? You bet!
 
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ike said:
Motul 300v is designed for ultra high performance and racing use, but can be used in any high-reving, naturally aspirated or forced induction engine applications.
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It is made for engines that rev high all the time, where street oriented oils such as 7100/5100 are made towards the low/mid range revs of the street.
 
Thanks silverbullet! Although I didnt find any info specifically about race oils vs regular oils, I did see some suggestions that racing type oils are designed to be changed much more frequently than regular oils (how much more frequently is not specified, but I suspect that racers would change oil at least for every race.) Must have something to do with the additive package in the oil and how quickly the additives lose their properties.

It turns out that, if I had done my homework, I would have discovered that the requirement for non-friction modified oils was cleverly hidden.
From the owner's manual, the oil specs needed are this:
Type: API SE, SF or SGAPI SH, SJ or SL with
JASO MA, MA1 or MA2

​
After doing a bit of research, I discovered that JASO MA, MA1 and MA2 are standards developed in Japan for Motorcycle engines that mean "Non-Friction modified" which means that oils that are called "energy conserving" are not suitable as they are too slippery for wet clutches and may cause the clutch to slip while under load.

There is an interesting article here from Motul - http://www.witchkraftracing.com/pdf/motul_synthetics_v1.4.pdf

Here are some other interesting articles that I came across....
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html (excellent oil test article)
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/files/JASO.pdf (explanation of the JASO standard and certification process)
 
silverbullet132 said:
It is made for engines that rev high all the time, where street oriented oils such as 7100/5100 are made towards the low/mid range revs of the street.
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Since when did oil become rpm specific? I would think it would be more of a waste of cash to put high end synthetic in a bike that's not being put through the punishment of track riding.
 
One difference between Motul 300V and 7100 is that supposedly 300V has less detergents in it, i.e. over a long period of time 7100 may do a better job of cleaning deposits/soot off your motor. It has nothing to do with RPMs, I don't think the difference is that big, and the price difference is negligible depending on where you shop.
 
My 955 Triumph requires synthetic oil. I have been using Mobil 1 synethic oil for Diesel trucks (not always the easiest oil to find if you only go to WallyWorld or Cdn Tire) since I bought the bike and it has worked fine. As for using car oils, be careful that the round symbol on the back of the container does NOT say ENERGY CONSERVING. If it says ENERGY Conserving in the round symbol...do not use it in your bike. It isn't just about the oil affecting your clutch. ENERGY CONSERVING oils are designed to limit the amount of an additive that motorcycle engines need for lubrication to bearings. parillaguy
 
If you've been using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck, have you looked around for it lately? I haven't seen it in Walmart or Canadian Tire for the last couple of months. But, Shell Rotella T6 is everywhere.

I've been using Mobil 1 TDT in my VW diesel, but unless it shows up again, I'll be switching to Rotella T6.

Your Triumph will be fine with Rotella T6, too.
 
silverbullet132 said:
It is made for engines that rev high all the time, where street oriented oils such as 7100/5100 are made towards the low/mid range revs of the street.
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maybe I should use this stuff in my 250...poor things consistently >10k rpm all the time
 
I've read alot about the Shell Rotella T6 and recently changed the oil in mine and my wifes bike (2009 650R and 2007 CBR125R). We both noticed a huge difference in how it runs and even shifts. Much smoother and much better mileage. Now I know why everybody raves about it.
 
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