Parking garage: P-1 cars, P-2 Jet skis, P-3 Scuba lessons. IIRC one waterfront parking garage already went through it years back.
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Ontario Science Centre
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
When the taxpayer is footing the bill for the giant dewatering pumps to run in perpetuity, lots can be accomplished. Hopefully the garage goes up instead of down.
Some things should never change and some should never stay the same. Not everything needs to be digital but grandpa's indoor frozen snow covered hill to walk up barefoot is a bit much.
At some point too much old stuff transitions a place from science centre to museum.
TK4
Well-known member
Doug lied again this morning in an interview. His developer buddies must be leaning on him pretty hard.
www.canadianarchitect.com
The true cost of repairing the Ontario Science Centre is much, much less than what Infrastructure Ontario has been saying—and the proof is in its own documents
Two figures have been cited by the Ontario Government: $478 million and $369 million. The actual number is much less—around $200 million, or just $24 million for tackling priority repairs to keep the museum open for several years to come.
www.canadianarchitect.com
Mad Mike
Well-known member
So they spend $24mill on the roof... what about the condemned walkway? Continue operating a fleet of shuttle busses? How about the overall poor operational efficiencies of the center -- only 25% of it's space is used for exhibits.Doug lied again this morning in an interview. His developer buddies must be leaning on him pretty hard.
The true cost of repairing the Ontario Science Centre is much, much less than what Infrastructure Ontario has been saying—and the proof is in its own documents
Two figures have been cited by the Ontario Government: $478 million and $369 million. The actual number is much less—around $200 million, or just $24 million for tackling priority repairs to keep the museum open for several years to come.
It's old, it's tired, it's a relic, and it's poorly managed. Ontario taxpayers pony up $25m a year in subsidies. Compare it to the Exploratorium, San Francisco's version of the OSC which is modern, well managed and exciting to visit. It generates $80M in revenues, has a net operating profit of $26MCAD, and a nest-egg f $300+m that is uses to fund its continuous upgrade.
Why do taxpayers always need to pony-up more dollars? Shouldn't we encourage our politicians to shut down poor performers if they can't up their game to a reasonable standard?
Let them absorb the liability. Province can issue them a cheque for the amount they quoted and they can manage the project. Any overages can be covered by CAA. I suspect their position would quickly evaporate if they had to put their money where their mouth is.
Relax
Well-known member
Good point - every F'n episode of Love It Or List It, the designer comes up with a plan for the homeowner's budget, then halfway through - surprise, we just can't do it for that price! You'd think someone who does it for a living might learn to estimate better over time...
Sadly, that rarely works. Often the professional knows the real price at the beginning but if they divulge it, client will immediately kill the project and there is no more billing (or for architects, no percentage of a construction budget to take). Provide the number you think they will accept, collect your money and blame external factors later. Either client pays more (and architect makes more) or they limit scope. In any case architect is ahead financially by their crap estimate.
A friend's Chris Craft Cavalier (Plywood hull) was due for a new bottom. He was also going to do some canvas work, electronics and upholstery. He had a budget of $XX,XXX and I asked him what he would do if they found frame problems.
He replied the bottom had to be done and if it needed frame work they deleted the upholstery. If it needed stringers they deleted the canvas work or electronics. The canvas, upholstery and electronics could safely be done the next year.
They could theoretically do the same with the OSC but construction credits, change orders and extras aren't that simple. Even if it was we could end up with a like new building with nothing in it.
TK4
Well-known member
Then make Doug show us his numbers - today he claimed he had two separate inspections done.
I cannot believe it's cheaper to replace than repair.
When he builds his new OSC edifice is that going to come in on time and on budget ?
"I love you, the cheques in the mail, and...."
I cannot believe it's cheaper to replace than repair.
When he builds his new OSC edifice is that going to come in on time and on budget ?
"I love you, the cheques in the mail, and...."
I don't trust douggies numbers but when the existing building has over 400k sq ft of dead space and new one is less than half that total, I could easily see a new building being cheaper than repair. That ridiculous amount of dead space still needs maintenance but never advances the stated reason for existence.
Old Dougie has become quite the ****-talker
Interesting. Todays release was accompanied by a letter from science center officials acknowledging that current building is at end of life. I can imagine that phone call. "Either support the process and continue to be paid for years while we work on a new location or find a new job".
It sounds like Ontario plans on handing Toronto the keys and walking away. Any bets on what Chow's going to do? Spend hundreds of millions repairing? Ignore it until it collapses? Try to get province to pay for demolition?
It sounds like Ontario plans on handing Toronto the keys and walking away. Any bets on what Chow's going to do? Spend hundreds of millions repairing? Ignore it until it collapses? Try to get province to pay for demolition?
You forgot the option that's probably going to happen spend millions more than the repair would have cost on consultants and let it rot at the same time. This way they get the best of both worlds money on fire and no concrete results
Sent from the future
I see your pun game is on point sir.
LILLEY: Science Centre's decline makes it beyond repair
The roof, the windows, a boiler system, the air conditioning not to mention asbestos mean this place needs to be shut down.
torontosun.com
Infrastructure Ontario Report from 2016.
A federal case but...
A jog in the thread but why do the money watchers get overruled by the money spenders?
The Museum of Civilization in Hull oops, now renamed
"The museum relocated to its present location in Gatineau in 1989 and adopted the name Canadian Museum of Civilization the following year. In 2013, the museum adopted its current name, the Canadian Museum of History, and modified its mandate to emphasize Canadian identity and history."
I thought we were trying to un-Canadianize our identity.
Also, we saw the museum many years ago and it was great. After touring the first building I asked what was in the second building an was told it was just offices.
If it's just offices why do the servants need a double the cost building. Why not, for the offices, something that looks a giant cornflakes box, like the ones us peons have to work in.
I can accept our PM gets a chauffeured limo to get to work but all his cleaning lady needs is a mini van.
A jog in the thread but why do the money watchers get overruled by the money spenders?
The Museum of Civilization in Hull oops, now renamed
"The museum relocated to its present location in Gatineau in 1989 and adopted the name Canadian Museum of Civilization the following year. In 2013, the museum adopted its current name, the Canadian Museum of History, and modified its mandate to emphasize Canadian identity and history."
I thought we were trying to un-Canadianize our identity.
Also, we saw the museum many years ago and it was great. After touring the first building I asked what was in the second building an was told it was just offices.
If it's just offices why do the servants need a double the cost building. Why not, for the offices, something that looks a giant cornflakes box, like the ones us peons have to work in.
I can accept our PM gets a chauffeured limo to get to work but all his cleaning lady needs is a mini van.
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