Ontario Place - what's going on?

[DemonPig]

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I've read the "blah blah" piece on how the gov't plans to chop it up and pretty much sell it. Well, maybe it's for the better because for the past 2 decades it has been an embarrassing dump. However, the current goal is 2017 and I don't see anything happening yet so my question is - does anyone actually know if anything is going on there?

http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/ontarioplace/recommendations.shtml

I mean, overall, Toronto is so mismanaged, it's beyond shocking. The waterfront revitalization - so far only see a bunch of condos. The docks - nothing. The largest sound studios in America - failure. CNE = crappy flee market, and Exhibition Place - what is it for again? Dundas Square - a pile of concrete surrounded by concrete (what a magnificent idea). Rouge and Don rivers look like a sewer, all the other creeks and rivers got buried many years ago so there's nothing in between all the way to Humber. No car restricted, public areas aside from the tiny Distillery District. I could keep going but I'd just get angry.

 

[Sunspark]

I'm sure they're just trying to figure out how to give the land to a condo builder for a song.

 

[Paul1000RR]

I'm sure they're just trying to figure out how to give the land to a condo builder for a song.

The days of building condos like they're going out of style are over...

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

When I was a kid, The Toronto skyline was amazing. When the condo started going up, it pretty much destoyed the view.

I've read the "blah blah" piece on how the gov't plans to chop it up and pretty much sell it. Well, maybe it's for the better because for the past 2 decades it has been an embarrassing dump. However, the current goal is 2017 and I don't see anything happening yet so my question is - does anyone actually know if anything is going on there?

http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/ontarioplace/recommendations.shtml

I mean, overall, Toronto is so mismanaged, it's beyond shocking. The waterfront revitalization - so far only see a bunch of condos. The docks - nothing. The largest sound studios in America - failure. CNE = crappy flee market, and Exhibition Place - what is it for again? Dundas Square - a pile of concrete surrounded by concrete (what a magnificent idea). Rouge and Don rivers look like a sewer, all the other creeks and rivers got buried many years ago so there's nothing in between all the way to Humber. No car restricted, public areas aside from the tiny Distillery District. I could keep going but I'd just get angry.

 

[GreyGhost]

The days of building condos like they're going out of style are over...

We'll see. The OP for Ontario Place talks about minimal condos, but condos generate the highest DC's (immediate money) and highest taxes (continued revenue stream) for a given piece of land. I have very little doubt Ontario Place will become similar to the Cityplace area (I called it a neighbourhood at first, but that's a strong word for a forest of condo towers).

 

[Sunspark]

I call it ****** Place. I'm sure it'll be a ghetto in 2030.

As an example of other neighbourhoods that were hip and are now not: St. James Town at Bloor and Sherbourne, those were condos before they became a rental block of apts.

Another is East York like Thorncliffe. Totally hot in the early 1960s, now so not.

Part of the problem with condos especially now, they are marketed with a low maint fee but once the corp is registered after a year, they can then file to change them. Then special assessments and the usual ongoing thing. You get to the point where you're paying double payments, mortgage and maintenance in addition to your taxes. So you're paying twice as much for a shoebox. People then begin renting them or abandoning them and then eventually the corporation collapses and it becomes an apartment slum. Be very careful which condo you buy. It is completely possible to have a good condo. I don't consider ****** Place a good condo location.

My advice to people living there, consider selling while you can or shield yourself in some manner.

 

[-D-]

IMO once that interest rate bumps up 1% then we will see a lot of places being abandoned.
I just don't see that many people making the salary needed for a place that is $350k+ for 500sqft plus maintenance fees plus property taxes. Condos are a bad idea for anyone looking to buy a "home". Buy something with land. As someone once said, Nature is not making new land. Condos are good for old people close to dieing and companies keeping a place in the city for their Executives.

What's done is done, downtown TO is just a giant cement jungle with no proper thought or planning.
It's just a cash stream for property and business taxes for the Govt.

Things will change for the worse once that interest rate ticks up 1 %.

 

[Lightcycle]

We're renting a condo at City Place for the summer and we're seeing exactly what you're describing. Lots of *very* young urban professionals, probably first job in the city, renting from property investors/speculators. Tenants and landlords have no pride of ownership and will put minimal investment into upkeep of the property, so there will be an inevitable decline in the next 15-20 years.

Another problem with City Place is that it's not really a neighbourhood. Being constrained by the busy and uncrossable Spadina-Gardiner traffic as well as the Gardiner itself and the railway tracks, there is nothing bringing outside foot traffic to the area. It is basically high-end tenement housing. Canoe Landing is a start to revitalizing the area, but they've got to bring in the southern Gardiner/Harbourfront traffic further up north.

 

[-D-]

We're renting a condo at City Place for the summer and we're seeing exactly what you're describing. Lots of *very* young urban professionals, probably first job in the city, renting from property investors/speculators. Tenants and landlords have no pride of ownership and will put minimal investment into upkeep of the property, so there will be an inevitable decline in the next 15-20 years.

Another problem with City Place is that it's not really a neighbourhood. Being constrained by the busy and uncrossable Spadina-Gardiner traffic as well as the Gardiner itself and the railway tracks, there is nothing bringing outside foot traffic to the area. It is basically high-end tenement housing. Canoe Landing is a start to revitalizing the area, but they've got to bring in the southern Gardiner/Harbourfront traffic further up north.

In 5-10 years you will see the great exodus, just watch the interest rate.
This City is over taxed and has no proper plan for anything. As you said, how the hell do you get to the water or for that foot traffic to come through. There is no proper transit system. We keep spending money on make work programs called the street cars. We do NOT need street cars. Spadina is the only functional street for them. It serves the historical groups, now move on and scrap the rest of it. Implement pedestrian zones meaning no cars e.g. around Dundas Square. Implement one way streets. It is stupid that you have ppl cross while cars are just backed up just to make a right hand turn, we wont even talk about the left turns.

We are up a creek, we can not scrap and rebuild.

 

[crankcall]

The marina is still functioning and viable, there was discussion of a less structured waterfront park being created, more like a high park. I hope the province can save it from Toronto.
T.O. has mishandled the waterfront for years, it went from an industrial swamp to a condo forest, with lots of talk of access for the people. They just got forgotten as the developers showed up at city hall with bags of cash.

 

[-D-]

The marina is still functioning and viable, there was discussion of a less structured waterfront park being created, more like a high park. I hope the province can save it from Toronto.
T.O. has mishandled the waterfront for years, it went from an industrial swamp to a condo forest, with lots of talk of access for the people. They just got forgotten as the developers showed up at city hall with bags of cash.

Lol, the Province can care less. As long as they get their cut of the funds.
We need a New Toronto

 

[RetroGrouch]

Condos are a short term fix for city revenue. When all the historic buildings and premium real estate are replaced with condos, who's going to visit Toronto? Word-class city my azz. And don't put the knee-jerk blame on Rob Ford, David Miller shifted this city into condo overdrive during his 2 mayoral terms.

 

[Red_Liner740]

Its already begun, just look at Vancouver who are about a year ahead of us. People bailing on new developments, developers taking them to court etc etc.

Seeing as how interest rates have begun to climb (5 year fixed being the "go to" interest rate that sets all other rates) Toronto and its ridiculous housing bubble which no-one wants to acknowledge is about to implode. Average Canadians are leveraged out and in debt worse than US before their 2008 housing bubble. The entire US economy and subsequently the CAN economy is kept alive with US Feds "quantitative easing" aka printing money! Just the announcement that maybe, just maybe they are thinking of slowing down quantitative easing in 2014 has given the US economy gas pain...

In 5-10 years you will see the great exodus, just watch the interest rate.
This City is over taxed and has no proper plan for anything. As you said, how the hell do you get to the water or for that foot traffic to come through. There is no proper transit system. We keep spending money on make work programs called the street cars. We do NOT need street cars. Spadina is the only functional street for them. It serves the historical groups, now move on and scrap the rest of it. Implement pedestrian zones meaning no cars e.g. around Dundas Square. Implement one way streets. It is stupid that you have ppl cross while cars are just backed up just to make a right hand turn, we wont even talk about the left turns.

We are up a creek, we can not scrap and rebuild.

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