No Left/Right Turn ticket trap | GTAMotorcycle.com

No Left/Right Turn ticket trap

S

Soldo

New member
Hey guys,

I got a ticket last February for making a right turn at Yonge/Bloor (I was southbound on Yonge, turning to go west on Bloor) around 8:45PM. Since that time I have moved recently and have misplaced my ticket for the infraction. Unfortunately since I only joing the forum now and read through getting disclosure I will not have enough time since my trial date is November 29.

At the time of the ticket I lived right at Yonge/Bloor for about 2 years, so I know how that sign works. The sign is an electronically changing sign (typically always no right/left during rush hour times and then becomes no left at all other times). I was doing my weekly Tuesday schedule and there was a large cube van infront of me. I noticed that the sign was no right once I was already half way in my turn. If I were to stop to correct I would have been rear ended by the car behind me OR maybe hit a pedestrian that was crossing that way.

I was pulled over as I was turning left on Bay st. When the officer pulled me over I explained to him that I live in the area and I know that sign is only during rush hour. He said that intersection is always that way (which is not true and it was changed back a few hours later) and told me he won't cut me a break at that time, but I should take the ticket to court and fight it. Which is the main reason why I filed for a trial date (I most likely would have fought it either way, but he gave me hope that he wouldn't show).

I know ignorance to the law isn't an excuse, but does me being used to the traffic signs due to regular routine count as ignorance? Would my argument hold up in court that by the time I noticed it was too late to correct my error without causing an accident of some sort? Also, I believe it was a trap that was setup by metro (which they do fairly often at that intersection and Bay/Bloor) so without getting disclosure is there any way to see if there were more officers involved and would they all need to be there for the ticket to hold up?

Thanks for listening
 
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South on bloor st,??? West on younge??
 
Did he give you an HTA ticket or a by-law ticket? I've been busted twice for those and both times got the by-law ticket for $18.
 
Unfortunately this is an absolute liability offense which means you can't exercise due diligence The courts are only interested whether you executed the turn against a 'Do No Turn' sign. Why you executed the turn is not their concern.

How do you this was an enforcement point (trap)?

You do have possible defences with the sign though, for example was the sign working properly? What's the by-law that supports the sign? What are the time intervals that the sign changes? How far out does the sign have to visible to approaching drivers (ie: 60m)?

What was the officer's vantage point? Was he able to see the electronic sign and your vehicle turning?

I recall for Red Light offences, officers have to verify whether the traffic light changing pattern was correct... something to that effect.

It's never too late to request for disclosure, do it as soon as possible; do not proceed to trial without receiving complete disclosure.
 
Could you argue that being right behind the cube van, it was impossible to see the turn/no turn sign? A bit of simple math may be your way out. Can't argue with mathematical facts!


Distance from you to the sign.
Angle of elevation.
Height of the sign.
Height of the truck.

Just a thought.
 
bskin - then the prosecutor will simply point out why following too closely is something that should be avoided, like reading signage, seeing lights, etc.
 
bskin said:
Could you argue that being right behind the cube van, it was impossible to see the turn/no turn sign? A bit of simple math may be your way out. Can't argue with mathematical facts!


Distance from you to the sign.
Angle of elevation.
Height of the sign.
Height of the truck.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Officer, I only turned right because I was so drunk I couldn't see the sign.
 
bskin said:
Could you argue that being right behind the cube van, it was impossible to see the turn/no turn sign? A bit of simple math may be your way out. Can't argue with mathematical facts!


Distance from you to the sign.
Angle of elevation.
Height of the sign.
Height of the truck.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Following one of those is a pain. IIRC one of the moto journalists (Jim Kenzie?) did a rant in the newspaper when he got a ticket under similar circumstances. It sounds simple enough to stay back but in reality it isn't that easy, doable but not easy. However one can't escape the charge just because of an inconvenience.
 
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