No 11b chance in Kingston! PO office is FAST.

[Grimmy]

Wow. These guys are fast. I mean, in terms of legal system speed, they are Rossi FAST.

I filed for trial on the 15th day from the infraction notice. No issue. Told the usual within 2 weeks will get trial notice, and I will have to request disclosure etc etc.

9 days later, Trial notice in mail received.

Trial date: 28 days later from notice receipt.

Total time from infraction to trial: 52 Days.

Wow. That's gotta be a new record.

 

[jeffjones]

Just hope they can't get you the disclosure before then.

 

[markopas]

I would say this would be normal for a small city and expect the cop to show.

 

[Macs]

I would say this would be normal for a small city and expect the cop to show.

Parry Sound was equally fast despite my ticket being during a long weekend

 

[jaymeister]

I live in Ktown and if it's the prosecutor I had she is the most efficient ever so be well prepared.

 

[iFly55]

yeah request for disclosure; if it's a speeding offense, they also have to give you the speed measuring device's manual

you have a good chance for atleast one adjournment due to disclosure, maybe more

good luck

 

[Grimmy]

UPDATE:

Wow, not efficient when it comes to disclosure.

Got a message that disclosure mailed a few days ago, and that I might receive it early this coming week.

Which means, I'll have a whopping 7 days at MOST before trial with the disclosure.

 

[Grimmy]

UPDATE:

They mailed Disclosure 8 days before trial. I received it yesterday, 5 days before trial inclusive.

Lovely.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

UPDATE:

They mailed Disclosure 8 days before trial. I received it yesterday, 5 days before trial inclusive.

Lovely.

Is the disclosure package complete? Does it have all the reasonable items you requested? Even if the answer is yes, assuming the cop shows up, you can still request for your charges to be dropped due to lack of complete disclosure because you didn't get it with enough time to review it. If the JP adjourns to a later date, you can 11b it then.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

eastern ontario is very efficient. the OPP don't usually have much else to do other than write tickets. I got lucky with one ticket, they lost the paperwork in the system for 2 or 3 years and the judge threw it out automatically under 11b (he was confused on why i was there after that long)

 

[daveyflakes]

Is the disclosure package complete? Does it have all the reasonable items you requested? Even if the answer is yes, assuming the cop shows up, you can still request for your charges to be dropped due to lack of complete disclosure because you didn't get it with enough time to review it. If the JP adjourns to a later date, you can 11b it then.

Honest question, how would you argue this? I ask because I received disclosure on the day of the trial. The prosecutor and the JP pushed pretty hard to proceed, arguing that I didn't need much time to review the material. A copy of the officer's notes and his explanation in the hallway was plenty of time according to them. I ended up getting an adjournment because I also asked for a copy of the laser gun manual.

But how would you argue that 5 days is insufficient, assuming all the material you asked for was provided?

 

[iFly55]

Honest question, how would you argue this? I ask because I received disclosure on the day of the trial. The prosecutor and the JP pushed pretty hard to proceed, arguing that I didn't need much time to review the material. A copy of the officer's notes and his explanation in the hallway was plenty of time according to them. I ended up getting an adjournment because I also asked for a copy of the laser gun manual.

But how would you argue that 5 days is insufficient, assuming all the material you asked for was provided?

you would have to argue it w.r.t. Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights; which gives you the right to mount a defence and make a full answer to the charges against you; the problem is getting it dropped would require a charter motion where you're a seeking a remedy for your s7 charter violation through s24; unfortunately the remedy for non-disclosure is usually to get disclosure; but from GTAM posts it appears sometimes stays are also granted

R. v. Stinchcombe [1991] 3 S.C.R. 326 is the authority w.r.t. disclosure http://scc.lexum.org/decisia-scc-csc/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/808/index.do

if the disclosure was sent via registered mail it's a bit different because you signed for it, therefore registering a date & location; but if they just sent it with Canada Post and placed in your mail box, you can reasonably say that it took 7-days to deliver.

unfortunately, the JP you had at this trial was pro-prosecution, pray you don't get them the next time around; you will have to argue that being self-represented you need more time to review the disclosure especially because you don't have a due diligence defence for speeding and that the only realistic way of a "not guilty" verdict would be to poke holes in the officer's training/testing/operation of the laser gun; you can only do this by reviewing disclosure (officer notes & lidar manual); being given a few minutes/hours is definitely unreasonable

btw did you get the laser gun manual? when is the new trial date?

 

[FiReSTaRT]

And the adjournment itself can put you in the 11b category. Get your 4F ready

 

[daveyflakes]

btw did you get the laser gun manual? when is the new trial date?

Me? Yes, I did. The officer went with me right after the trial to get a photocopy of the manual and his notes. New trial was set for 2 months after the original trial. Prosecutor pushed for just one month, but I was going to be out of town, so they begrudgingly agreed to two months...

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Me? Yes, I did. The officer went with me right after the trial to get a photocopy of the manual and his notes. New trial was set for 2 months after the original trial. Prosecutor pushed for just one month, but I was going to be out of town, so they begrudgingly agreed to two months...

Ughhh that may screw you for 11b, but try to argue it anyway. Will be an uphill battle and the fact remains that the delay comes from the lack of due diligence by the Crown.

 

[daveyflakes]

I don't think I ever had a chance for an 11b. Ticket was issued last December, trial was in May. I'm really quite impressed--and surprised--at the efficiency of the downtown ticket/court office...

 

[Grimmy]

Unfortunately the disclosure is clear and to the point, and the case is very straight forward. So, IMO there was no point in taking it farther. The cop showed up too, and I tried some trickery which the prosecutor wouldn't fall for. So.. that was that.

Interesting part: There were abolut 12 matters in court for the day, and they hold court 3 days of the week. It's a VERY slow court out here. Everything from pet (leash) violations to traffic were being heard.

Make note: Dont get busted in Eastern Ontario.