New Tech vs. Old and repairable for long term? An article from ADV Rider.

xrljoel

Well-known member
This article by Canadian Zac K. 100% expresses what has been on my mind over the last few months.

I have been looking for simpler, older bike for a while, one that's more of a daily rider than my Norton could be. I love riding, but am not smitten with any new offerings from any manufacturer.

It was really brought home travelling in Newfoundland this summer and encountering a guy on the side of the road with a dead Harley. He thought it was his battery, and his friend was in the process of driving to a community 2+ hours away to look for a potential replacement. Unless an ATV or boat battery would work/fit there wasn't going to be any help there aside a truck & trailer or flatbed.

 
The focus is on a subscription model of monthly payments from consumers and releasing the latest and greatest to keep them.

The whole idea of keeping a vehicle is outdated in the minds of manufacturers and corporations. And that includes most industries that manufacture motorcycles and other Powersports and equipment.
 
I've always gravitated to the simpler bikes without the electronics.
Aside from ABS and F1...I can do without the rest. I'd be just as happy with a fuel tap with reserve.

I was impressed with Itchy Boots1980s choice of rides. Paid off for her as well.
 
I think this KISS mindset only pertains to a shrinking subset of riders. Namely, older and dirt-oriented.

You cannot be stranded in the middle of nowhere and be forced to call (no cell signal?) for a tow back to a dealership to replace a sensor or computer chip because no tool you own will fix your ride. That shiznit just won't fly for the off-road crowd.

And those who have worked on their bikes from back in the time Jesus got his first pair of sandals will not be happy they will no longer be able to wrench on their own ride.

However, there is a new breed of rider who wants their bikes to be like their cars. Packed with every imaginable gadget possible and if any light pops up on their dash - it's straight to the dealership to replace the burnt-out bulb in their headlight or top up their coolant.

I was teaching a class and one student asked "What if I get a flat?" I replied, "Ten-Ten" and showed them my $10 plug-kit and said "10 minutes is all it takes" and proceeded to explain how to plug a tire.

Most of them wanted to know how much CAA for Motorcycles cost, instead... 🤷‍♂️
 
However, there is a new breed of rider who wants their bikes to be like their cars. Packed with every imaginable gadget possible and if any light pops up on their dash - it's straight to the dealership to replace the burnt-out bulb in their headlight or top up their coolant.

I mean, there is a happy medium.

I've owned dead simple motorcycles on which the only electronics were basically the cluster, and even that was probably relays and mechanical bits for the most part, not even "electronics" proper.

My current bike is basically a rolling mainframe with everything short of a espresso maker and satellite TV - gotta leave something for the BMW and Goldwing guys. ;)

But I've also owned more than a few bikes that met somewhere in the middle and were still Timex level reliable. My Vulcan Voyager for example - it had it's fair share of electronics - all electronic engine with fly by wire throttle, digital controls, blah blah blah. I put something like 80,000km on the thing in 4(?) years of ownership, rode the crap out of it and put it away wet quite often, and it always just kept going, never causing me nary an ounce of problems.

I did the same with my rolling mainframe this year - took it to the Arctic ocean to the north with the driving rain and brutal roads that entailed, took it to many places in the brutal heat in the summer, and then down to the US on September, starting more than a few days in barely above zero temps, and aside from one moment of panic on the JBR where it threw the belt (courtesy of a rock, and we were able to fix it roadside), it too didn't cause me any issues.

Modern electronics and electrical construction (sealed electrical harnesses and plugs, modern printed circuit board construction methods etc) mean that electronics are now pretty darned reliable. Do things happen? Sure. Does it mean that just because a bike has a lot of electronics that it's going to be inherently unreliable however? No. Sure, I could be riding something dead simple, but I've reached the age where I enjoy some niceties on the often long rides I do - satellite radio for when there's no cell coverage or I'm bored of whatever is on my phone, heated seat for those cold mornings and aching muscles, power windshield so I can have the wind in my face when it's nice but still hide behind it 30 minutes later in that freak rainstorm...LED lights all around, different riding modes for different conditions, electronic fuel management that lets a bike that big get the fuel economy it achieves, etc etc.
 
I mean, there is a happy medium.

I've owned dead simple motorcycles on which the only electronics were basically the cluster, and even that was probably relays and mechanical bits for the most part, not even "electronics" proper.

My current bike is basically a rolling mainframe with everything short of a espresso maker and satellite TV - gotta leave something for the BMW and Goldwing guys. ;)

But I've also owned more than a few bikes that met somewhere in the middle and were still Timex level reliable. My Vulcan Voyager for example - it had it's fair share of electronics - all electronic engine with fly by wire throttle, digital controls, blah blah blah. I put something like 80,000km on the thing in 4(?) years of ownership, rode the crap out of it and put it away wet quite often, and it always just kept going, never causing me nary an ounce of problems.

I did the same with my rolling mainframe this year - took it to the Arctic ocean to the north with the driving rain and brutal roads that entailed, took it to many places in the brutal heat in the summer, and then down to the US on September, starting more than a few days in barely above zero temps, and aside from one moment of panic on the JBR where it threw the belt (courtesy of a rock, and we were able to fix it roadside), it too didn't cause me any issues.

Modern electronics and electrical construction (sealed electrical harnesses and plugs, modern printed circuit board construction methods etc) mean that electronics are now pretty darned reliable. Do things happen? Sure. Does it mean that just because a bike has a lot of electronics that it's going to be inherently unreliable however? No. Sure, I could be riding something dead simple, but I've reached the age where I enjoy some niceties on the often long rides I do - satellite radio for when there's no cell coverage or I'm bored of whatever is on my phone, heated seat for those cold mornings and aching muscles, power windshield so I can have the wind in my face when it's nice but still hide behind it 30 minutes later in that freak rainstorm...LED lights all around, different riding modes for different conditions, electronic fuel management that lets a bike that big get the fuel economy it achieves, etc etc.
What I worry about is tech that gets depreciated and replacement or workarounds become unobtainable.

This happened to me once. My first real adv was a Suzuki TS200r. It had an early power valve system that was electromechanical controls. After 10 years powervalves became obsolete, 15 years and the electrical/mechanical actuators became unobtanium. No aftermarket.

I stretched the life by a few years by deleting the PV and using a plain cylinder with the same specs. I haven’t seen. TS200r in the wild gor more than 10 years.

I’m sure there are other examples.
 
I mean, there is a happy medium.
[..] I've reached the age where I enjoy some niceties on the often long rides I do - satellite radio for when there's no cell coverage or I'm bored of whatever is on my phone, heated seat for those cold mornings and aching muscles, power windshield so I can have the wind in my face when it's nice but still hide behind it 30 minutes later in that freak rainstorm...LED lights all around, different riding modes for different conditions, electronic fuel management that lets a bike that big get the fuel economy it achieves, etc etc.

Was talking more for off-road vehicles, as most of the damage is self-inflicted vs parts failure.

For instance, a common occurrence on new bikes is breaking the side-stand kill switch if you fall on it just right. Broken side-stand sensor means bike won't go. Used to be that you could hotwire the two leads in the wild and bypass the sensor allowing you restart the bike. Newer bikes now have complicated sensors that integrate into the fault system of the bike's computer and require an electronic aftermarket solution to defeat, as opposed to the penny-in-the-fusebox hack.

One that got me was when I damaged the ABS sensor on my R12GS in Europe. Bike was in limp mode till I got the $75 sensor replaced. No non-BMW mechanic was able to fix it. Had to tow it 200 kms to the nearest stealership.

But yeah, if you like non-motorcycle-critical doodads like SatRadio, LED headlights, power windshields, etc. have at it.

Just don't have any of that gee-wizardry leave you stranded if it fails, and requires you to visit an official dealer for parts exchange. That's annoying.

My current bike is basically a rolling mainframe with everything short of a espresso maker and satellite TV - gotta leave something for the BMW and Goldwing guys. ;)

Ouch. I felt that. :cautious:

Yeah, I love the Boxer platform and live with the fact that it's jam-packed with computer sh!t. A couple of decades ago, BMW came out with a stripped-down Boxer GS called the HP2 Enduro. Minimal electronics, no complicated Telelever suspension, 50 lbs lighter than the normal R12GS. I kick myself for not getting one back then, and if they ever came out with a modern HP2E, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat!
 
What I worry about is tech that gets depreciated and replacement or workarounds become unobtainable.

This happened to me once. My first real adv was a Suzuki TS200r. It had an early power valve system that was electromechanical controls. After 10 years powervalves became obsolete, 15 years and the electrical/mechanical actuators became unobtanium. No aftermarket.

I stretched the life by a few years by deleting the PV and using a plain cylinder with the same specs. I haven’t seen. TS200r in the wild gor more than 10 years.

I’m sure there are other examples.
I saw a very clean black and yellow one in the back of a pickup truck in the Timmies parking lot in Havelock this Fall. Newly purchased wall-hanger possibly.
 
The bane of a new bike is that they are hard to fix yourself and dealer service sucks.

Parts are a different thing. Bikes last almost forever here in the north where they don't get driven all year. The motor combinations seem endless. 50cc to 1800cc with Honda alone and with varying options. Stocking parts is a nightmare and a financial PITA. Inventory on a shelf, to the government, is money sitting on the shelf. Please remit the taxes.

Control modules make bypassing impossible in many cases. Nothing works until all the sensors hold hands.

There will be a hack to any problem but is it affordable if you have to manufacture a custom sensor?

Problem also is if you spend a ton of money on an old vehicle and it gets stolen or totaled, insurance payout will be peanuts

Maybe a Briggs and Stratton powered mini bike.
 
The bane of a new bike is that they are hard to fix yourself and dealer service sucks.

Parts are a different thing. Bikes last almost forever here in the north where they don't get driven all year. The motor combinations seem endless. 50cc to 1800cc with Honda alone and with varying options. Stocking parts is a nightmare and a financial PITA. Inventory on a shelf, to the government, is money sitting on the shelf. Please remit the taxes.

Control modules make bypassing impossible in many cases. Nothing works until all the sensors hold hands.

There will be a hack to any problem but is it affordable if you have to manufacture a custom sensor?

Problem also is if you spend a ton of money on an old vehicle and it gets stolen or totaled, insurance payout will be peanuts

Maybe a Briggs and Stratton powered mini bike.
Or a Ural.
 

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