New Rider - Still have Questions not answered in Stickies | GTAMotorcycle.com

New Rider - Still have Questions not answered in Stickies

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Sunny87

Well-known member
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Hi GTAM,

I recently got my M2 a few weeks back and have read through the stickies, but still have some questions hopefully you vets could help me with.

I'm currently looking into any 250cc or 500cc sport bike (cbr250, ninja250, intercepter 250, ex500, gs500, am I missing any that I should look at?) So far those are the ones that i've taken a look at.

I'm trying to decide whether I should go with an older bike (in the 90s) or with a newer one (05+) as generally the ones in the 90s are substantially less ranging from 1000-2000 while the 05+ will be about 3000-4500. Will buying an older bike be more economical? Will I end up paying just as much to maintain and / or fix it in which it would have been better to buy a newer bike in the first place? I don't mind doing basic maintenance work, but would not like to spend more time working on a bike than riding it. I personally enjoy working on my car much more to be honest.

Secondly in regards to insurance, does the year of the model make a difference in insurance premiums? Will premiums vary if I buy a 92 ex500 vs a 07 ex500? If so, would it be a vast difference?

Lastly, I know what to look for when buying a used car and i'm mechanically competent when it comes to cars, but I don't have the slightest clue when it comes to bikes. Is there anyone I can pay to help me look at bikes with me, but won't charge as much as a mechanic would? (I will bring it to a shop prior to purchase though)

Your input and advice is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Sunny
 
Welcome!

I'm sure you'll get lots of advice here.

I can't speak to the list of bikes that you have, other than say you certainly have lots of choice from them.

I'm doing a similar search right now for what to get for bike number 2 in our house. Both my wife and I ride and are sharing one bike
(It's our first season) With older bikes, I've been told to watch for worn carburetors and worn first and second gears. Apparently the shift dog for first and second wear out first making the transmission pop out of gear or hard to find neutral. I'm leaning towards 2000 or newer myself though there are several nice machines from the mid 90's that are also appealing with low mileage.

Your insurance will more depend upon your age, years of M class driving and whether you have other policies with the same company, than it will on the age of motorcycle given the displacements you are looking at. Rates don't vary too much for bikes under 500cc. For comparison purposes check out insurancehotline.com

Happy hunting!
 
Thanks for your input. I would prefer a newer bike, but the older ones are a lot cheaper. For example, the 92 ex500 being sold on the GTAM forum for $1000.

I also checked out insurance rates last year, and was quoted 1400 for full coverage on a ninja 250 at that time (assuming I had an m2). I just wanted to check with forum members first whether it mattered if I got an older or newer model of the same bike in terms of premiums (to help me factor in whether I should buy an older or newer bike).
 
Start looking outside of Toronto. I scored my 1st bike for $2100 (5-yr-old GS500F), but I had to go to Belleville to pick it up. Saved over a grand compared to the prices in GTA at that time. I ended up buying new tires for that bike (~$200) but I'm very particular about my rides.

Your premiums are mostly affected by the amount of experience that you have and the size of bike engine, not that much by a year of manufacturing. I'm talking about beginner bikes here. There is not much difference in insurance costs between the bikes that are worth $2k and $4k
 
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Don't forget newer bikes are easier to sell afterwards. Also, depending on your experience/handling/maturity, etc. don't completely rule out 600s/ 650s.

Send me a pm with your email and I can send you a fairly comprehensive used bike inspection list I made a while back.
 
Sunny87 said:
Thanks for your input. I would prefer a newer bike, but the older ones are a lot cheaper. For example, the 92 ex500 being sold on the GTAM forum for $1000.

I also checked out insurance rates last year, and was quoted 1400 for full coverage on a ninja 250 at that time (assuming I had an m2). I just wanted to check with forum members first whether it mattered if I got an older or newer model of the same bike in terms of premiums (to help me factor in whether I should buy an older or newer bike).
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You may wish to reconsider the full coverage part. I would never put collision on an older bike or car. This is because I would pay a higher premium and not really get much back if the vehicle was wrote off, for example. For example why pay possibly a few extra $100's premium for a bike that is worth $1,000 - $2,000? Save your money for gas, tires, riding gear....

I know lots of people who eliminate the collision portion on their car/truck once it gets to be, say, 8 + years old. It is worth nothing to the insurance company so you will get nothing back. Besides if memory serves me correct collision is basically for when you are at fault (so pay attention and don't F up) or if you hit a deer on the road and write the bike/car/truck off. However, you are still covered for medical needs, 3rd party liability..... Collision is for your vehicle.
 
@Viper7:
I'll definitely take a look outside the GTA! Haven't thought about it, but I will now. And thanks for your input on insurance, if it doesn't vary in between years then I will consider a newer model instead.

@bboysushi:
Yea, I've come to realize that newer bikes turns over easily. Thanks for that reminder. I will PM you in regards to that list of yours!
I am however set on a 500cc or less bike for cheaper insurance and to learn. Personally I'd take a 250, but some other factors are pushing me closer to a 500cc such as riding comfortably @ highway speeds and going about town / trips with a passenger when I feel comfortable enough to ride with one. 600 is a bit overkill for what I need. :)

@Ikan:
I'll look into seeing how dropping full coverage will affect my premium. I believe when I originally inquired about it, it was not much of a difference, but the points you've raised do make a good point. I'll take it into consideration and ask the insurance agent when I find a suitable bike. Thanks!
 
You should go even older, there are lots of 84 interceptors on kijiji for around $1000, and insurance is cheap on them and you don't have to worry about it as much as a newer bike in regards to dings, scratches etc.. Also there is a basic motorcycle maintenance course at Centennial College in which you get to bring your own bike to class to work on it, they all have more advanced motorcycle mechanic classes as well.
 
Johnny5 said:
You should go even older, there are lots of 84 interceptors on kijiji for around $1000, and insurance is cheap on them and you don't have to worry about it as much as a newer bike in regards to dings, scratches etc.. Also there is a basic motorcycle maintenance course at Centennial College in which you get to bring your own bike to class to work on it, they all have more advanced motorcycle mechanic classes as well.
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i wouldnt recomend a bike that old unless you know how to tinker with the old bikes. they probably need more maitanance than they are worth. escpecially for a newb.
for first bike, i would recomend a used but not too old bike. depending on your needs, ninja 250 is one of the best beginer bikes out there. they have high resale value as well. great for in around town, twisties and will do highway speeds without any problems.
 
You say that '600 is a bit overkill for what I need' - and you're probably right, but this doesn't mean you should rule out the 650s.

You're probably thinking 'If 600 is overkill, 650 is even worse!', but there's something else going on here: pretty much all of the 600cc bikes around are four cylinder, racing-oriented machines.

The 650s, on the other hand, tend to be single or twin cylinder machines with more conservative gearing, and will generally be a lot 'tamer' and have more predictable power output than the four cylinder racing machines.

On the other hand, if you're set with 500cc and below, the GS500 is a great bike that has excellent parts availability and is pretty easy to maintain. I picked one up as my first bike... I love it, but find myself strongly considering getting a KLR650 next year so I can tackle some rougher roads and trails.

And, guess what... the KLR650 is actually a SLOWER bike than my GS500, even though it's a 650! Why? One cylinder and bigger gears.
 
i tend to disagree with people when they say 650 is a good beginer bike. i have had a 250 and am now on a sv650. there is so much torque on this thing.
just one of the differences i found on this bike vs. the 250 was in the middle of the turn with a 250, even if i accidently put on a little bit of too much throttle or grabbed some front brake, i could still manage the 250. but with sv, if i give a little too much throttle in the middle of the turn, i can feel the rear tire slipping already. a newb might get spooked easily by this and then grab a lot of front brake which would not be a good idea. grabbing any amount of front brake also unbalances the bike a lot more compared to the 250.
did i mention the torque diff. between the two bikes. of the line/lights/stop acceleration is too much for a beginer IMHO.
i've ridden a friends ninja 500. compared to the sv, its a lot better choice for a beginer. but i still prefered riding my 250 over the 500 because of the ergos.
 
Has no one mentioned that km age bikes more than age itself does?
Manufacture date is just a time stamp, km is the magic number.
 
adri said:
Has no one mentioned that km age bikes more than age itself does?
Manufacture date is just a time stamp, km is the magic number.
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While that's true for wear on consumable components such as brakes, tires, chain, sprocket most people are far too worried about mileage on bikes. No reason why you can't get 100,000 kms out of any Japanese engine if it's been treated right and VERRRRRRRRRY few bikes are ever driven more than 50,000.
 
My 250 has 30,000 km in less than 3 years. I'll be at 50k in no time. And when bikes get up in mileage numbers, like you said, they're fine IF they've been maintained, but if you're a buyer you haven't been maintaining the bike, someone else has, and you need to trust someone who's trying to sell you something... Or buy a less worn bike.
 
adri said:
Has no one mentioned that km age bikes more than age itself does?
Manufacture date is just a time stamp, km is the magic number.
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I don't get that. Are you saying that if I buy two bikes, shove one in a barn and ride the other for seven years, the barn bike will be better?
 
My 6 year old bike with 8k km is mint compared to my 2 year old bike with 30k km.

Buy two pairs of jeans. Wear one to work every weekday. Wear the other pair every weekend. Find me in two years and tell me your weekend pair won't be less worn.
 
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While there's some truth to what you're saying (light use over longer period of time being generally good), overall it's apples and oranges.
Jeans don't rust, corrode or seize. A bike with 0 km, that's been just sitting somewhere for several years, neglected, may become a can of worms for the new owner. The truth is that both TIME and MILEAGE contribute to bike's decay.
 
adri said:
Do you feel better now? Lol
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You do realize that was Demonpig`s first post on the issue?

It seems that several different people have noted that your observation that mileage is king when considering a used bike is simplistic and not necessarily valid. In that this is a thread to advise noobs on purchasing a bike I think creating a better understanding of the issue is an admirable thing.

There are many bikes that have very few miles that were bought by someone that put it in the shed and never rode it for years. They'll need a ton of work including potentially a complete re-build of the engine, bead blasting the tank, complete disassembly of the fuel system, replacement of gaskets, etc. On the other hand, a bike of the same vintage with 50,000 kms that's been ridden every year will need new tires, brake pads and a tune up. I know which one I'd buy.
 
Good point Griffin. I recently bought a 1983 CM250C with only 650 km on it. My concern was what's going to go wrong; what has dried out and is going to seize/blow? I wouldn't have bought it except that the 650 km was put on by the seller, not the original owner, so he had already dealt with all those issues. It has been a great bike and other than maybe I should look into new tires (I need to check the date codes, but I think they are original) nothing else seems to be wrong.
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