Need help HTA 182(2) ticket Disobey sign.

[Impy]

Hello. I got a ticket today for passing 2 slower moving cars and 1 cube van. They where doing 45-50 in a 60 zone. I was in a passing zone so i signaled and passed. The cop said he knew i was speeding by the sound of my bike (08 gsxr 600 yoush R77 full exhaust) but did not know my speed when i passed the cars. The cop was parked in a small parking lot on the left hand side of the street.

1. This happened on ridge road in hamilton\stoney creek area.
2. Is it worth fighting my self or get someone to fight it for me? If so who?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Brian P]

What sign is it alleged that you disobeyed? The offence is pretty vague and could mean anything.

If it is alleged that the sign that you disobeyed was a speed limit sign, and the officer does not have any evidence that you disobeyed the sign (i.e. a speed measured by some instrument) - the sound of your engine is not such evidence! - then it should be easy to beat in court.

Request disclosure and find out what's in the officer's notes, and go from there.

 

[Impy]

Yes it was for disobey the posted speed limit. Also I think there where 2 cops in the parking lot because after i stopped for the fist cop the 2nd was not far behind.

 

[Gumby256]

Dam I guess I shouldn't drive around town in 2nd gear anymore might get speeding ticket because bike sounds fast.

 

[Fiery254]

I got pulled by a cop once. He accused me of accelerating away from a stop sign rather too enthusiastically on my debaffled 1098. I suggested he was mistaking nose for speed, an argument he accepted. We then proceeded to chat about bikes for a couple of minutes before he went back to the speed trap he was running.

I'd suggest you got a pair of ***** who don't like loud bikes. Fight it. Ask for a first appointment with the prosecutor and see what evidence he has in his/her file. I'd imagine very little. Good luck.

 

[油井緋色]

I got pulled by a cop once. He accused me of accelerating away from a stop sign rather too enthusiastically on my debaffled 1098. I suggested he was mistaking nose for speed, an argument he accepted. We then proceeded to chat about bikes for a couple of minutes before he went back to the speed trap he was running.

I'd suggest you got a pair of ***** who don't like loud bikes. Fight it. Ask for a first appointment with the prosecutor and see what evidence he has in his/her file. I'd imagine very little. Good luck.

I hear of all these stories where people talk to cops and are let go (including for lane splitting)....but isn't' the #1 rule to never talk to a cop? Just nod but never say yes or agree?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

It sounds like there's no evidence, so you should be able to fight it yourself. You'll need to get disclosure, when the time comes, so that you know specifically what you have to refute.

 

[awyala]

I hear of all these stories where people talk to cops and are let go (including for lane splitting)....but isn't' the #1 rule to never talk to a cop? Just nod but never say yes or agree?

When you talk to cops you never admit what they are charging you of. You admit what is legal. For example in this case you could admit you have a legal after-market full exhaust (assuming the OP does) and that it is louder than stock. He can go ahead and write that into his notes. If you don't know what you are saying, and actually have an illegal after-market system then the best advice would be to shut up, take your ticket and fight it later after you have done a little homework. Different situations differ.

And no, don't nod your head and agree to anything.

Some cops are so unsure of their position, prefer to let you off with a warning, or are generally lonely souls looking for that right roadside connection that a good chat goes a long way.

 

[awyala]

To the OP. My nephew got charged with the same ticket and had it withdrawn for being an incorrect ticket:

1) Ticket did not make clear which sign he failed to follow. Cop said my nephew rode in the diamond lane on Eglinton W.
2) Cop had a trap set up. Handing out tickets by the truck load.
3) Disclosure came: 2 lines (model of bike) and some incoherent numbers. No indication of what sign he failed to obey.
4) I instructed my nephew to request adjournment on the basis the disclosure was insufficient and instead request willsay.
5) My nephew followed my instruction and the justice agreed to both (prosecutor audibly mumbled "this should be interesting" when the request was made)
6) They asked my nephew to wait outside the court while they prepared willsay. The prosecutor was seen walking in and out several times increasingly annoyed. (Cops hate writing willsay).
7) My nephew was summoned back into the court room and the charge was withdrawn as "an incorrect ticket". (You see there already is an HTA offence for driving in the high occupancy lane!!!!)

It seems to me when the cops are light on evidence they pull out the ol' 182(2).

There already is an HTA offence for speeding, and if that is what he is accusing you of, then that is the ticket he should have issued. This should be highlighted in your trial by the way, that he accused you of speeding then issued a different ticket. He didn't say, "I heard your loud *** bike turn left at a no left sign". He said "I heard you speeding, and you failed to obey a posted speed limit sign".

Now go get 'em tiger! Remember...disclosure!

 

[nikiter]

Easy breezy ticket to get rid off. You got this one!

Do cops get some kind of a talk from their supervisor when they right bs tickets like that?

 

[nfq]

Easy breezy ticket to get rid off. You got this one!

Do cops get some kind of a talk from their supervisor when they right bs tickets like that?

Most people don't fight tickets. Simple numbers game.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Most people don't fight tickets. Simple numbers game.

Small surprise given the inconvenience of submitting a request for trial, taking the time off for trial, missing the pay for the lost day.........

 

[kiwi]

To the OP. My nephew got charged with the same ticket and had it withdrawn for being an incorrect ticket:

1) Ticket did not make clear which sign he failed to follow. Cop said my nephew rode in the diamond lane on Eglinton W.
2) Cop had a trap set up. Handing out tickets by the truck load.
3) Disclosure came: 2 lines (model of bike) and some incoherent numbers. No indication of what sign he failed to obey.
4) I instructed my nephew to request adjournment on the basis the disclosure was insufficient and instead request willsay.
5) My nephew followed my instruction and the justice agreed to both (prosecutor audibly mumbled "this should be interesting" when the request was made)
6) They asked my nephew to wait outside the court while they prepared willsay. The prosecutor was seen walking in and out several times increasingly annoyed. (Cops hate writing willsay).
7) My nephew was summoned back into the court room and the charge was withdrawn as "an incorrect ticket". (You see there already is an HTA offence for driving in the high occupancy lane!!!!)

It seems to me when the cops are light on evidence they pull out the ol' 182(2).

There already is an HTA offence for speeding, and if that is what he is accusing you of, then that is the ticket he should have issued. This should be highlighted in your trial by the way, that he accused you of speeding then issued a different ticket. He didn't say, "I heard your loud *** bike turn left at a no left sign". He said "I heard you speeding, and you failed to obey a posted speed limit sign".

Now go get 'em tiger! Remember...disclosure!

What is this "WillSay" ??

 

[Impy]

I went and submitted my request for trial today and was told when i get my trial date i can then submit my request for disclosure. The lady at the court house was very nice filled out the paper work for me gave me a copy with my stamped ticket and the request for disclosure form. She said to fill the form out and bring it back when i find out when my court date is.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

What is this "WillSay" ??

Exactly what it sounds like; what the witness will say when questioned, on the stand.

 

[Macs]

I went and submitted my request for trial today and was told when i get my trial date i can then submit my request for disclosure. The lady at the court house was very nice filled out the paper work for me gave me a copy with my stamped ticket and the request for disclosure form. She said to fill the form out and bring it back when i find out when my court date is.

Do NOT use their form. It is intended to get you the bare minimum.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

Yes it was for disobey the posted speed limit. Also I think there where 2 cops in the parking lot because after i stopped for the fist cop the 2nd was not far behind.

Disobeying the speed limits usually gets you a speeding ticket.
Are you sure about this?
Any chance there was a sign posted indicating NO PASSING?

 

[Impy]

Disobeying the speed limits usually gets you a speeding ticket.
Are you sure about this?
Any chance there was a sign posted indicating NO PASSING?

No it was in a passing zone and i also asked the cop what it was for and he said speeding.

 

[slowbird]

What an odd ticket.


I'm interested to see what the disclosure says

 

[iFly55]

S.182 for Speeding is used to give drivers a "break"; i've seen the crown reduce +40kph to S.182 which carries $110 fine and 2 demerit points

However the crown still has the prove the offense took place, by means of "stopwatch, pacing, speed-measuring device"; eye-balling it and based on the sound of the engine, is a joke. Keep in mind the onus is on the crown, this is an "absolute liability offense" which means the crown needs to be prove without reasonable doubt it took place

Officers issue tickets to get compliancy, but issuing a bogus ticket that won't hold a candle in court is very weird.

I doubt you'll get disclosure for this based on your conversation with the officer, it'll most likely get withdrawn when you go to court due to "lack of evidence".

It's also possible the officer is blowing smoke, and pulls out radar evidence or w/e; in that scenario you could plea-bargain to a municipal by-law for "disobey official sign", which doesn't carry any points and because it's not under the Highway Traffic Act, it won't go on your record and won't show on your driving abstract when your insurance company runs their check