Need advice in filing 11b application

[hamaad89]

I've read the sticky but I've never done this before, hoping someone could answer a few questions I have.

Scenario: Got a heavy parking ticket in beginning of Sep, 2011. Went in and requested a trial date the next business day. Just got the trial notice in mail on Feb 7th (Dated Jan 31, 2013). Trial is set for Mid March 2013.

I'm thinking to put in a request for disclosure anyway, and file the 11b so that if my 11b is rejected, i can adjourn since I probably won't get a disclosure between now and my trial date (not my fault, just got the notice). Can someone advise me whether this is a good idea or am i over looking something?

I have a few questions,

1.) I've read everywhere that I must file my 11b application at least 15 days before my trial date, is this still correct today? if so 15 business days or just 15 days?

2.) It was my dad's car, so the ticket is under his name although I had the car. I'm assuming I can file the 11b on his behalf and represent him in court without him being there just like I would for a normal traffic ticket trial?

3.) so far, I just know that all I have to do is to fill in and send form 4F (http://www.fyst.ca/question.htm) to the prosecutor, attorney general of ontario and attorney general of canada. Is there anything I'm missing?

4.) The example of form 4F (http://www.fyst.ca/question.htm) mentions that the grounds for this constitutional questions is the failure of the crown to provide a disclosure. What would I put here if say I did get the disclosure between now and my trial date? I guess just that the request for trial was filed in beginning of Sep 2011, did not receive a trial notice until Feb 7, 2013 and the trial was not scheduled until Mid-March 2013, and no reason was given by the crown to explain the delay in setting a date for the trial. Is that correct?

5.) I did receive another parking ticket 4 days after this one, and I had the trial for that in Sep 2012 (1 year after), can I use that in my favor in any way? i.e. the court had set a trial for my other ticket (that i received after this one) in a timely manner, why not this one? both tickets were given downtown, one on yonge/front and the other on yonge/dundas.

6.) lastly, i'm very unfamiliar with "law jargons", what exactly do I say in court when my name is called and I'm asked how I would like to plea.

Thanks in advance for your time & help!

 

[MarcosSantiago]

What exactly is the charge? Is this a fire-route one, or a handicap-space one?

Comments to your questions
2.) Yes, you can represent your father in court for this matter just like any other traffic ticket

4.) Do not get confused here - you are using the 11b to present the issue of unreasonable delay. You posted a link to a form that is useless, 100% confusing. In the link that you posted, your issue is number 3 ("That the trial is further delayed through no fault of the defendant's"). The rest of the form does not apply - unless you requested diclosure and the "Crown failed to provide disclosure for the defendant to prepare a full answer". According to your own post, you have not asked for disclosure yet.

Why not take a look at this form http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/forms/civil/04f/RCP_E_04F_0707.doc ?
And use this EXAMPLE as a reference: http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/form_4f_example.doc

And do some reading here: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2808.html

5) Not really... are the tickets for exactly the same charge?

 

[hamaad89]

What exactly is the charge? Is this a fire-route one, or a handicap-space one?

Comments to your questions
2.) Yes, you can represent your father in court for this matter just like any other traffic ticket

4.) Do not get confused here - you are using the 11b to present the issue of unreasonable delay. You posted a link to a form that is useless, 100% confusing. In the link that you posted, your issue is number 3 ("That the trial is further delayed through no fault of the defendant's"). The rest of the form does not apply - unless you requested diclosure and the "Crown failed to provide disclosure for the defendant to prepare a full answer". According to your own post, you have not asked for disclosure yet.

Why not take a look at this form http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/forms/civil/04f/RCP_E_04F_0707.doc ?
And use this EXAMPLE as a reference: http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/form_4f_example.doc

And do some reading here: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2808.html

5) Not really... are the tickets for exactly the same charge?

Thanks Marcos, I will take a look at those forms. and the charge is the handicap one "STAND VEHICLE IN ON-STREET DISABLED LOADING ZONE WITHOUT PROPER DISPLAY contrary to the CITY OF TORONTO MUNICPAL CODE; CHAPTER 903-9"

The other ticket was for parked in a no standing area, so no they're not the same charge.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

Thanks Marcos, I will take a look at those forms. and the charge is the handicap one "STAND VEHICLE IN ON-STREET DISABLED LOADING ZONE WITHOUT PROPER DISPLAY contrary to the CITY OF TORONTO MUNICPAL CODE; CHAPTER 903-9"

The other ticket was for parked in a no standing area, so no they're not the same charge.

I am no expert on parking tickets or 11bs, or anything else, but it may be hard to present an 11b successfully for this ticket. The problem is that any regular, garden variety parking ticket usually has to wait at least one year before going to trial. You waited 18 months for this one.

So you will argue that it was unreasonable, but basically the answer from the prosecutor is going to be that, given the "seriousness" of the charge, it is "normal" and to be expected to wait 18 months or more.

Then, it is up to the JP to decide: He will be aware that the crown is right about waiting times, waiting 1.5 years is the usual ("normal") - but even if it is the norm, can it be "unreasonable delay"? Is there precedent for parking tickets under this code?

You would have to do a very good presentation of the reasons why it has affected you negatively. Otherwise, the JP will just dismiss your 11b and will proceed with the trial.

 

[hamaad89]

Then, it is up to the JP to decide: He will be aware that the crown is right about waiting times, waiting 1.5 years is the usual ("normal") - but even if it is the norm, can it be "unreasonable delay"? Is there precedent for parking tickets under this code?

I think I read a thread on here before about how someone succeeded with an 11b for a parking ticket, can't find that thread though.

I sent in my request for disclosure, let's see what happens with that.

My other question is, basically if I don't see the officer who issued me the ticket there, i can plead not guilty and hope the prosecutor doesn't reschedule and I'll be off the hook right? Is it ever possible for the crown to pursue the trial anyway without the officer being there?

 

[?spoc]

I think I read a thread on here before about how someone succeeded with an 11b for a parking ticket, can't find that thread though.

I sent in my request for disclosure, let's see what happens with that.

My other question is, basically if I don't see the officer who issued me the ticket there, i can plead not guilty and hope the prosecutor doesn't reschedule and I'll be off the hook right? Is it ever possible for the crown to pursue the trial anyway without the officer being there?

Yes then can go forward and enter the ticket and any notes as fact. Unlikely this will be the case.

If you dont get an 11B your likely boned. You parked in a handi cap space, without a permit. All they have to prove is that signage ect. was posted and the vehicle was parked there without a permit... 18 months for this offence won't meet the test, but weirder things have happened.