Markham street parking free or not?

[Mig21]

I've been parking on the street in the GTA for many years, but yesterday parked on the street in Markham and got a ticket (fail to properly display a parking control machine receipt, 40$).

WTF?

I called the city and someone called me back and said she's absolutely sure that in Markham a motorcycle is considered the same as any other motor vehicle and I must pay for parking. She didn't have an answer about where I should have put the parking stub so it wouldn't get stolen. She said I must go and talk to the parking attendant to discuss the issue further.

I'll go but wanted to ask first, has anyone experienced this before? Does that mean in effect that you aren't allowed to park a motorcycle on the street at all in Markham?

 

[JFD]

Where did you park and what was the time?

 

[Mig21]

In the morning on Allstate Pky, got ticket at 10:17AM:

http://littlesvr.ca/misc/Bike parked Markham 2013-10-21_14-23-20_53 small.jpg

 

[nfq]

Markham is it's own City. You gotta pay the ticket.

City of Toronto is where you get Free Motorcycle Parking on the Street (Pay and Display).

 

[Mig21]

Oh, are you sure? That really sucks. I guess I'll have to try and talk to my concillor about that (I actually live in Markham, right on the border). Anyone know how to do that most effectively?

How about anywhere else around Toronto and elsewhere in Ontario/Canada? Are you typically allowed to park for free on streets with this kind of payment system? I would have thought all of the GTA at least would have the same rules.

 

[brucewayne]

so where are you supposed to put the stub without it being stolen? do they have a clear tape dispenser or something? heck that would still just get ripped off.

 

[JFD]

so where are you supposed to put the stub without it being stolen? do they have a clear tape dispenser or something? heck that would still just get ripped off.

I dont' suspect that's an area with a high rate of mischief.... :/

 

[nfq]

so where are you supposed to put the stub without it being stolen? do they have a clear tape dispenser or something? heck that would still just get ripped off.

You leave one piece on the bike, i.e. between the gauges and windscreen, rubber band it to a handle bar, under gastank flap, etc. You keep the other bit as a receipt. In the event of a ticket you show the receipt, ticket is thrown out. Life goes on.

 

[油井緋色]

Oh, are you sure? That really sucks. I guess I'll have to try and talk to my concillor about that (I actually live in Markham, right on the border). Anyone know how to do that most effectively?

How about anywhere else around Toronto and elsewhere in Ontario/Canada? Are you typically allowed to park for free on streets with this kind of payment system? I would have thought all of the GTA at least would have the same rules.

You'd have to look up each city's bylaws. This is another reason why I stopped commuting with my motorcycle and if I go anywhere I park it in front of where ever the hell I'm sitting/waiting (aka side walk infront of restaurant).

 

[nfq]

You'd have to look up each city's bylaws. This is another reason why I stopped commuting with my motorcycle and if I go anywhere I park it in front of where ever the hell I'm sitting/waiting (aka side walk infront of restaurant).

Careful with the sidewalk parking, obstructing a handicap walkway is not a fun ticket to get.

 

[brucewayne]

You leave one piece on the bike, i.e. between the gauges and windscreen, rubber band it to a handle bar, under gastank flap, etc. You keep the other bit as a receipt. In the event of a ticket you show the receipt, ticket is thrown out. Life goes on.

that still a whole lot of wasted time though, for both rider and city. chances are someone else is or will be parking there so it highly likely to get stolen... then the time wasting begins.

regarding crime. i had my plates stolen when i basically on the markham border. i was off my bike for 20 min, came back to no plates.

 

[nfq]

that still a whole lot of wasted time though, for both rider and city. chances are someone else is or will be parking there so it highly likely to get stolen... then the time wasting begins.

regarding crime. i had my plates stolen when i basically on the markham border. i was off my bike for 20 min, came back to no plates.

They're coming with the pay-by-plate systems, so essentially, enjoy the free parking (in Toronto) while you can. Soon it'll be 'enter plate for parking permit' or 'text Zone for 1 hr parking" and it'll deduct from your mobile.

 

[Mig21]

that still a whole lot of wasted time though, for both rider and city. chances are someone else is or will be parking there so it highly likely to get stolen... then the time wasting begins.

Yeah, I'll feel comfortable arguing that it's undue stress and financial burden - not the paying for parking but the worrying about having the ticket stolen, and going to the town hall (during business hours), wasting time there and probably being treated like a liar. And for what? My taking up one sixth of the space a car would?

There's a reason it's free in Toronto, and it wasn't that they wanted to be nice to riders, they must have figured out eventually that they waste way more time arguing about the tickets than they're worth.

Does anyone know what the rules are outside of Toronto? Anywhere?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

'Undue burden' or not, it's still the law. The rules vary, city to city and region to region. On-street parking is either legal or illegal, based on the rules in the Highway Traffic Act, or it is covered by local bylaws. In most cases it's a bylaw issue.

 

[Mig21]

'Undue burden' or not, it's still the law. The rules vary, city to city and region to region. On-street parking is either legal or illegal, based on the rules in the Highway Traffic Act, or it is covered by local bylaws. In most cases it's a bylaw issue.

Yep, I got that, and I given that this is the law I should probably pay the ticket, but how do I go about changing that law? How did it happen in Toronto?

There's two ways I can think of:

1) Dispute the ticket in court, and instead of arguing that I shouldn't pay the ticket I'd argue that the law should be changed. I have a feeling I'll be told that for some or another legal process reason that's not the way to do it. But there's a chance the justice/judge would give me a tip about what I actually need to do.

2) Contact my councillor, show them what they have in toroto, and sell this as a cost saving measure for the city (which it would be), and wait till they change the city bylaw. Maybe with help from others It would be possible contact all the Markham councillors (I don't know how many there are) to give this a chance of succeeding.

 

[Ugur Dinch]

OP - if you got time to go in, they will give you 50% discount on the parking ticket, if first time appealing.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Yep, I got that, and I given that this is the law I should probably pay the ticket, but how do I go about changing that law? How did it happen in Toronto?

There's two ways I can think of:

1) Dispute the ticket in court, and instead of arguing that I shouldn't pay the ticket I'd argue that the law should be changed. I have a feeling I'll be told that for some or another legal process reason that's not the way to do it. But there's a chance the justice/judge would give me a tip about what I actually need to do.

2) Contact my councillor, show them what they have in toroto, and sell this as a cost saving measure for the city (which it would be), and wait till they change the city bylaw. Maybe with help from others It would be possible contact all the Markham councillors (I don't know how many there are) to give this a chance of succeeding.

It took critical mass, and the assistance of a couple of city councillors, to get it changed in Toronto. Your best bet is to talk to your own councillor and lay things out the same way that riders in Toronto did. You can find the details in the parking sticky post.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

...
1) Dispute the ticket in court, and instead of arguing that I shouldn't pay the ticket I'd argue that the law should be changed. I have a feeling I'll be told that for some or another legal process reason that's not the way to do it. But there's a chance the justice/judge would give me a tip about what I actually need to do.

...

For example, in Vaughan, you would be lucky to even get to court. There is an "Screening Officer" filtering people, actually stopping them from going to court. Not sure if it is the same in Markham.

Once in court, you can't argue that the law should be changed to suit your situation. You'd be lucky if they don't interrupt you and kick you out.

Pay the ticket and save your time. Write to your councillor. It is not a cost saving measure for the city, try a different argument.

Good luck!

 

[hedo2002]

Plus to add even "IF" and that is a huge IF the court agreed with you the bylaw should be changed, they can't "order" it to be changed and dismiss the charge, (for that reason). They may deem insufficient evidence to convict, and enter a finding of not guilty. But as has been stated the more likely scenario is they will reduce the fine.

As for getting a bylaw changed you should look on Markham's website there is generally a "procedure" to do so in some jurisdictions you require a certain number of signatory's to a petition so it can be brought before council. In other jurisdictions, it is as simple as speaking to a Councillor and having them make a motion for an amendment, or asking city staff to "study" it. Either way is not a quick resolution.

Just using the argument it would be a money saving for the city is likely not enough to get it changed, (cities don't care about savings it isn't their money to begin with and it "could" mean less unionized employees. A better approach would be to see what other jurisdictions do and if you can present arguments that 7 out of say 10 permit bikes free parking that is a much more compelling argument.

 

[matthew]

Markham needs to pay for the new arena.