Maintaining and parts for Nortons

S

Surein

Active member
Hi folks of GTA,

As my first bike I am thinking of getting a 1970 Norton Commando.
Just want to know what I might be getting myself into.

Anyone know if parts or specialized mechanics are available?
Really like the classic cafe racers but I might convert a 74 CB if this is a bad idea.

Thanks!
 
Vintage bikes like that are ordinarily not good choices for beginner bikes. Aside from being rather difficult and expensive to find a good one to begin with ...

If you tip it over or crash it - in addition to all the OTHER problems you can run into with ANY bike - you could break something that could at best be very costly to replace or take a very long time to get, or quite possibly be completely unavailable.

And that's on top of the finickiness that's inherent with any such beast. They don't start with the momentary touch of a starter button, they have oddball tire sizes and constructions that are no match for anything modern, the "prince of darkness" nickname for Lucas electrics was well earned as far as I've been able to tell, brakes only work when they feel like working, sketchy carburetion, sketchy breaker-points ignition that requires frequent maintenance, and LOTS of vibration.

Stick with something newer, smaller, lighter, and much more reliable for your first bike. Ride that for a year. THEN decide what you want to get in the longer term.
 
Similar look. Better performance. Modern technology:
bonnevillese_2009_001.jpg

2010_Moto_Guzzi_V7_Classic%204.jpg
 
Surein said:
oh wow! you think the 74 Honda will have similar issues?
Thanks so much for the advice.
Click to expand...

Anything 197... will be hard to get parts for, will have wheel sizes that won't allow modern tires, will have suspension that is awful by modern standards, and will have breaker-points ignition (that started going away in the late 1970's). But at least in its day, the Honda WORKED. The lights came on when you flipped the switch, the engine started when you pressed the starter button, it had disk brakes. There's good reason why Honda (and the other Japanese makes) put the British out of business. But still, add almost 40 years of wear and tear, and possibly periods of neglect ... Not saying you won't be able to find a good one, but odds are, there are going to be issues on top of the issues that are inherent with anything that old.

The current Triumph Bonneville (photo above) is a darn nice bike, and visually it does a good impression of being vintage. And it WORKS.

I still say, buy a used Suzuki GS500 or something like that for cheap, ride it for a year, then decide.
 
Let's see here...
I had a 1972 Norton 850 Commando (brand new) in 1973.
Then I had a used 1973 CB750-4 in 1975.
Very different bikes!
On a 1970 Norton you would shift with the right foot, and brake with the left foot.
Both bikes would need their breaker-points and condensers replaced with a modern solid-state ignition triggering device.
These are still readily available for single-cam Hondas (1969-1976), no problem.
My cousin in Georgia (Brit-bike central) says still available for old Nortons/BSAs/Triumphs too, but trickier to source.
Top-quality new bias-ply tires are still available in small sizes, for example Avon AM26.
I turned my 1973 750 into a solo-seat cafe racer, it was pretty kewl, bar-end mirrors, little cafe fairing etc...
But that was back in the 1970s!
Either of these bikes would be for an owner with very deep pockets today.
If on a budget, you'd be much better served by a more modern, inexpensive model...
 
The Nortons are the most supported of all the vintage machines out there. There are pattern parts for every part of the popular Nortons, as in Atlas or Commando. I think you could build a complete bike with pattern parts. You can buy third party cases and crankshafts from Norvil... I can't think of any other bike that has parts available like a Norton.
Tires are NOT an issue, there's lots available in 18 and 19 inch... even some race tires.
If you like points there is nothing wrong with the Norton's ignition, 'cept the coils, swap in some modern coils. If you don't like points get an electronic from Boyer-Branson or Dyna... same for your 70s Honda.
Yes, some of the switch gear on a Norton was kind of suspect, BUT you WILL have problems with ANY 40 year old bike electrics... LOTS OF PROBLEMS... NO NO ... LOTS AND LOTS OF PROBLEMS. (At least on a Norton there is only an ignition switch, kill button, horn and headlight...and two of those are in the headlight nacelle so easily replaced with something modern. Try that with a Honda!)
I run a Gus Kuhn Norton, with a ("a" as in a single disc) stock Norvil disc and an aftermarket Lockheed caliper and never had a brake problem. (I also have a bunch of old Hondas, that have the same disc brakes as the early CB750s, and they blow large, no better than the Norton's Girling brakes, and not as good as the Norvils.)
Nortons are NOT a heavy bike, actually you would have search long and hard to find any other bike, of comparable displacement, that weighs less, even looking at modern bikes. A Norton has a fairly long wheelbase which makes it feel heavy.
Nortons DO NOT have electric starters. Never have. A Norton has electric start "ASSIST". You hit the starter button AS YOU KICK IT OVER WITH THE KICK START LEVER. Otherwise you will wreck the starter ASSIST motor.
Nortons have a 4 speed transmission with the shifter on the right until 1973, and a torque curve like a freight train.

So to sum up, from someone that restores and races BOTH Nortons and 70s Hondas, I think it would be much easier to ride a Norton than any other bike from that era.

Here is where reality kicks in: A new rider will NEVER find insurance for a Norton, or a '70s Honda... or anything else that old.


OH... and Honda did NOT put the British Motorcycle industry out of business, English politics did that.
 
As a 30 year rider and BSA owner, and mechanically inclined, I would suggest the Norton has Mega cool factor, but don't do it. One of the monikers for these was Notruns. If you want information , check out Wallridge Motors for parts etc. I use him, he is solid, mail order no problem.
 
bitzz said:
Here is where reality kicks in: A new rider will NEVER find insurance for a Norton, or a '70s Honda... or anything else that old.
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Jevco will insure any rider with an old bike. A new rider will just pay more for the first year. Regardless, it's bad idea for a new rider to buy a vintage bike. I've seen others to this time and time again, it never works out. Owner eventually gets too frustrated, sells old bike and buys newer bike. The price of vintage cool is never worth it if you don't know how to fix stuff.
 
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i got a kawasaki w650 ans it's a good base for a classic cafe racer. Check it out. Ebay has a couple of them for $4k.
 
Brian P said:
Vintage bikes like that are ordinarily not good choices for beginner bikes. Aside from being rather difficult and expensive to find a good one to begin with ...

If you tip it over or crash it - in addition to all the OTHER problems you can run into with ANY bike - you could break something that could at best be very costly to replace or take a very long time to get, or quite possibly be completely unavailable.

And that's on top of the finickiness that's inherent with any such beast. They don't start with the momentary touch of a starter button, they have oddball tire sizes and constructions that are no match for anything modern, the "prince of darkness" nickname for Lucas electrics was well earned as far as I've been able to tell, brakes only work when they feel like working, sketchy carburetion, sketchy breaker-points ignition that requires frequent maintenance, and LOTS of vibration.

Stick with something newer, smaller, lighter, and much more reliable for your first bike. Ride that for a year. THEN decide what you want to get in the longer term.
Click to expand...

8 points made and all of them Wrong

Only real advice the OP needs as far as the Norton is concerned is
Stick with the 750 and NOT an 850
 
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If you buy an old bike join a local CVMG (Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group), if you've got an old bike the members will be a huge source of information and/or parts.
 
Do you want to ride or wrench?

You can buy a new Triumph for about $10G OTD and go riding as far as you want with few unknowns.

Since you are asking this question it has to be assumed you don't know much about bikes so be prepared to spend a lot of time or money on a classic of any make.

If you have the money and space the ideal situation would be to have one of each. A new retro to actually go places without assuming being hauled back and a vintage bike for a tea run to Timmies.

The CVMG is a good source of information but some people have complained of attitude if you don't walk the walk.

If you have never restored anything buy an old gas lawnmower off of Craigslist and restore it for the experience. It will be a cheap lesson on wrenching, cleaning, derusting, part sourcing, dumb questions etc. Then multiply the cost and frustration by 10 and the financial loss by 10 to give yourself a better idea of what it's like to restore an old bike.
 
If you can get hold of Speedway on this forum,he'll be of help.He has an Interstate and a Commando.
 
It would really help if you gave us a better idea of what you are looking for. Do you have a specific bike in mind? If so what condition is it in? If not, the cheapest way to go in the long run is to buy a recently restored bike. Guys finish them and then move on to other projects. A good running Commando should fetch anywhere from $5000 to $8000 give or take a bit. That would be a bike that has all the usual mods such as electronic ignition, Mikuni carb conversion etc. and runs well with no issues. If you want I could go with you to look at a bike. I've owned several over the years including my baby that I bought in1978 and will never part with. Parts are available from many sources including loads of trick stuff limited only by your imagination and wallet.
 
Hachi-Roku said:
8 points made and all of them Wrong
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I would really like to see an explanation of this.

I will give an explanation of my points.

Hard to find and expensive? Hmmm ... There are no Norton dealers. There are none for sale in the local classified ads. There are none for sale in the Auto Trader. The local bike dealer has none for sale used. Yes, you'll find them if you go looking but you can't just walk into any shop and find them for sale.

Parts hard to get ... Yes, you CAN get reproduction parts for Nortons. The whole bike (or almost all of it) is indeed available in aftermarket parts. (In this regard, it's better than most similar-age Japanese bikes, for which replacement parts are in many cases completely unavailable.) But compared to a plain ordinary late model Suzuki GS500, let's say, you are not going to walk into your local bike shop and place an order and get that part the next day. You have to know where to order the part (from a specific shop that deals with them) and I guarantee that unless it's something very commonplace, it ain't gonna arrive the next day and it ain't gonna be cheap.

Hard to start ... others have covered this; you'll be kick starting.

Tires ... True, Avon has tires in the sizes needed. I do not know if they are "good". (Only point of reference I have, is that I used Avon tires for a short while on my race bike, and when I switched to Bridgestone, that was an immediate two seconds per lap.) I do not know if you can get them next day from your local bike shop. They almost certainly won't have them in stock.

Carbs, ignition, electrics? Not as fuss-free as anything modern. Period.

Vibration? Yep, they vibrate.

And you'll be shifting with your right foot in reverse pattern.

I don't see where I'm wrong.
 
Tripletrouble said:
Make that 9 points wrong! The 850 is a more relaxed less stressed motor than the 750.
http://ontarionortonowners.ca/
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lol
No where in my post did i say the 850 wasn't a "more relaxed less stressed motor than the 750"

but if you want to start pricing out parts then stick with the 750
850=$$$


Brian P said:
I would really like to see an explanation of this.

I will give an explanation of my points.

Hard to find and expensive? Hmmm ... There are no Norton dealers. There are none for sale in the local classified ads. There are none for sale in the Auto Trader. The local bike dealer has none for sale used. Yes, you'll find them if you go looking but you can't just walk into any shop and find them for sale.

I know of 3 shops that currently have 750 and 850 commandos for sale.Also another good reason to become a member of the CVMG

Parts hard to get ... Yes, you CAN get reproduction parts for Nortons. The whole bike (or almost all of it) is indeed available in aftermarket parts. (In this regard, it's better than most similar-age Japanese bikes, for which replacement parts are in many cases completely unavailable.) But compared to a plain ordinary late model Suzuki GS500, let's say, you are not going to walk into your local bike shop and place an order and get that part the next day. You have to know where to order the part (from a specific shop that deals with them) and I guarantee that unless it's something very commonplace, it ain't gonna arrive the next day and it ain't gonna be cheap.

Were not talking cost,Were taking parts availability. There are a few shops out there that can get brit parts.As for next day I've had a few parts sent from Walridge next day.Hell he's even brought the parts to shows instead of shipping (Next day) or had someone bring them

Hard to start ... others have covered this; you'll be kick starting.

If you consider Priming the carbs and 1 or 2 kicks as "Hard to start" then maybe these aren't the bikes for you

Tires ... True, Avon has tires in the sizes needed. I do not know if they are "good". (Only point of reference I have, is that I used Avon tires for a short while on my race bike, and when I switched to Bridgestone, that was an immediate two seconds per lap.) I do not know if you can get them next day from your local bike shop. They almost certainly won't have them in stock.

Most Tire manufacturers have conversion charts. For example 3.25 would convert to a 120 tire and so on

Carbs, ignition, electrics? Not as fuss-free as anything modern. Period.

'Carbs'
My Amal 930's are the easiest carbs I've ever worked on Period. Remove and Plug Chokes and they're still super simple

'ignition'
Points will always get you home. Boyer/Sparx ect are great set it and leave it systems but they're an after thought.

Vibration? Yep, they vibrate.

Well Duh.:) but then so do some modern sport bikes I've rode

And you'll be shifting with your right foot in reverse pattern.

lol aside from shifting on the Right side they're the same 1 down 3 up / 1 down 4 up there's nothing "Reversed" in the Pattern"

I don't see where I'm wrong.
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Just to be clear
This isn't meant to be a "I know more then you" post
But merely to clear up some miss information

There are a few members here (You included) who's opinions and knowledge i respect but there's also a lot of Misinformation floating around when it comes to Vintage/Older bikes. Jap or Brit
 
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RetroGrouch said:
it's bad idea for a new rider to buy a vintage bike. I've seen others to this time and time again, it never works out. Owner eventually gets too frustrated, sells old bike and buys newer bike. The price of vintage cool is never worth it if you don't know how to fix stuff.
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With shops out there having the balls to charge $6000 for motor re-builds or forgetting seals,Can you blame them?

I think it's less knowing how to wrench and more knowing how to tighten bolts before rides new owners need to learn.

Not only that but finding out they now need to invest in not only Standard and Metric tools but whitworth as well adds to the shell shock
 
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