Looking for advice

[Krime]

Riding to the cottage, I received two tickets. Heading North on a country road I was clocking in the opposite direction while passing a car on my motorcycle (105km/h in an 80). After safely passing car#2 and merged in behind car#1 other car, and saw an OPP cruiser (coming in the opposite direction about 1km up) pull a U-turn in the distance, blocking off traffic and then completing the turn to get on the northbound shoulder. The car in front of me passed the cruiser who was now on the shoulder facing our direction, then turned on his lights and signalled me to pull over. It was very clear that he had something against sport bikes, as his tone was noticeably upset and made mention of pulling over 'guys like me' riding carelessly and impounding their bikes - there's a zero tolerance for speeding, especially on bikes, that I could have killed my girlfriend who was on the back, if I can't control myself maybe I should be riding a moped instead, etc, etc... All the while being clocked at 105 in an 80 while passing!

As I didn't have my latest insurance card with me I was told that I was going to receive a $600 fine (for the speeding I was assuming), $400 for a tow, and min $5000 for no insurance. I remained calm the entire time and was very cooperative. After the scare tactics, he issued two tickets - the first is 105 in an 80 (25 over), the other is failure to surrender proof of insurance (no points and part of the highway traffic act). I have 48 hours to fax him proof of insurance which will not be a problem for me.

He made a comment that he had his radar on the entire time and no other car was going under 80km/h, so there was no reason to pass. My question is, with car#2 being directly in front of car#1, how could he have gotten an accurate read on car#2 to prove he was going above 80 as he says? I'm thinking this is the best angle to argue in court - would be great to get your thoughts.

I have a few additional questions:

1) Unfortunately I see that the court house is located in Barrie, which is too far for me to fight and I'll be leaving the country for 4 months in 2 weeks. I'm going to fight the ticket, but will likely need to hire a paralegal. Any recommendations for a representative to hire in Barrie would be great.

2) I'm going to fight the tickets, and understand that I need to drop of the tickets off at the Barrie courthouse with the appropriate boxes checked. Do I need to be there in person, or can I have someone else drop of the ticket for me?

3) Since the insurance ticket is part of the Comp Automobile Act (and not the Highway Traffic Act), will this have any effect on my insurance? If not, I'm wondering if I should just pay this ticket, and fight the other.

Thanks.

 

[Krime]

Hoping to get an answer to the following questions before I visit the courthouse: Since the insurance ticket is part of the Comp Automobile Act (and not the Highway Traffic Act), will this have any effect on my insurance? If not, I'm wondering if I should just pay this ticket, and only fight the other. Or should I fight both regardless? Also, since I've now faxed my proof of insurance to the officer, if I show the fax receipt to the judge, can this ticket be dropped?

Thanks.

 

[Brian P]

If you were never ahead of the car in front of you, your radar signature ought to be smaller than that of the car, and there's practically no chance that he would have actually gotten radar on YOU (as opposed to the car in front).

Furthermore, if he was actually 1 km ahead, I believe there is a guideline for what range the radar is supposed to be set to, and it's nowhere near 1 km. They are supposed to SEE you "speeding" and then use the radar to "confirm" this. For that, you have to be within a distance that they can accurately visually estimate your speed. All this is in theory, of course. The cop will have a story in court that cooks your goose.

Good luck.

 

[Macs]

I would go with Redline or if you're willing to settle on a plea bargain, X-Copper. It doesn't really matter what he said to you, it's what's in his notes and what your defence gets in disclosure. If you're gone for 4 months you'll probably miss your court date unless there's an option to stay proceedings until you return, but your paralegal would know for sure.

 

[MarcosSantiago]

Hoping to get an answer to the following questions before I visit the courthouse: Since the insurance ticket is part of the Comp Automobile Act (and not the Highway Traffic Act), will this have any effect on my insurance? If not, I'm wondering if I should just pay this ticket, and only fight the other. Or should I fight both regardless? Also, since I've now faxed my proof of insurance to the officer, if I show the fax receipt to the judge, can this ticket be dropped?

Thanks.

Do you have a telephone number for the officer?
Call him and ask him two things: a.) Did you get my fax? and b.) Are we cool about this ticket?
You need confirmation that the ticket is in the system or not.

If you actually have two tickets, an option is to negotiate with the prosecutor, asking him/her to withdraw the speeding ticket and you will commit to pay the failure to show insurance card.

 

[Krime]

Macs, thanks for the recommendations. I'd like to avoid plea bargaining if possible. I feel it was an undeserved and inaccurate ticket and the way he handled it was completely unprofessional. I'd like to personally show up and fight this ticket on my own, but with leaving the country in less than 2 weeks, I'm imagining this won't be possible.

Thanks Brian, it may have been less then 1 km, but in either case it was quite far away, as I pulled in behind the leading car after passing, saw the OPP approaching in the distance, slow down, pull a u turn (stopping in the middle of the road for about 10 seconds) causing the car in front and myself to casually slow down to an almost complete stop. I didn't even clue in that it was me he was pulling over at first.

Do you have a telephone number for the officer?
Call him and ask him two things: a.) Did you get my fax? and b.) Are we cool about this ticket?
You need confirmation that the ticket is in the system or not.

If you actually have two tickets, an option is to negotiate with the prosecutor, asking him/her to withdraw the speeding ticket and you will commit to pay the failure to show insurance card.

I don't have his telephone number but when he handed me the ticket I did ask if it would be dropped when I showed proof of insurance within 48 hours. He said no, the ticket still sticks... but again not sure if this was a continuation of his scare tactics.

That's a great suggestion to negotiate the withdrawal of the speeding ticket in exchange for taking the hit for the failure to show proof of insurance. Is this beneficial for me, or will this ticket still affect my insurance rates (even thought it's not part of the highway traffic act)?

I see on the back of the ticket in the notice to appear section, that I can check a box to have a representative represent me. Do I need to fill this in when I'm submitting my tickets at the courthouse, or can I arrange to have a representative (paralegal) after the fact. Can't seem to find these details in the "What to do when you want to fight your ticket in court" sticky.

 

[iFly55]

'Fail to Show Insurance' will affect your insurance rates the same way 'Speeding' does: http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/documents/brochure/FAQ_ON brochure_Eng.pdf; they will both fall under the 'Minor' Category when >+50kph

In a plea-bargain situation, the prosecutor will most likely drop the 'Fail to Show Insurance' in exchange for a reduced +15kph (no points); the reduced speeding conviction looks better on the prosecutor and the city, when it comes to statistics.

You have to read the CAIA - 3 (1): http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90c25_e.htm

Operator to carry insurance card

3. (1) An operator of a motor vehicle on a highway shall have in the motor vehicle at all times,

(a) an insurance card for the motor vehicle; or

(b) an insurance card evidencing that the operator is insured under a contract of automobile insurance,
and the operator shall surrender the insurance card for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.25, s. 3 (1).

The ticket won't be dropped just because you had valid insurance, the charge was for failing to produce it when requested; i know people who found their insurance cards 30s after they got the ticket, and they were still convicted in court, even though them producing it later was in the officer's notes.

Redline seems to be the go-to suggestion around here, i'm not sure if they'll go to Barrie but it wouldn't hurt giving them a call.

I believe you can mail in your ticket and check off 'Intent to go to Trial', request disclosure when you get your Notice of Trial and go through the process; as Brian suggested you may have a good chance to dress down the officer during cross-examination and bring reasonable-doubt

 

[MarcosSantiago]

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I don't have his telephone number but when he handed me the ticket I did ask if it would be dropped when I showed proof of insurance within 48 hours. He said no, the ticket still sticks... but again not sure if this was a continuation of his scare tactics.
...

The following happened to my friend (pls note that all my posts are about things that happened to my 'friends'): Car going on the 407 at a good pace was pulled over by an officer. My friend did not have a current insurance slip, and the officer said "Here's my fax number, if you get it to me before the end of day I will drop the ticket". My friend faxed the slip later that day with all his contact info, and the cop called him back to confirm that the ticket would be dropped and no further action would be needed. My friend got a good lecture too. This was a younger OPP officer, with a pretty good attitude. Things like this (forgotten documents) are better dealt with a warning IMO. My friend has never again forgotten to put the new insurance slip in the car, as soon as he gets it in the mail.</SPAN></SPAN>


I’d suggest to fax the officer again and ask him what he did with the ticket.

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That's a great suggestion to negotiate the withdrawal of the speeding ticket in exchange for taking the hit for the failure to show proof of insurance. Is this beneficial for me, or will this ticket still affect my insurance rates (even thought it's not part of the highway traffic act)?
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As posted above by </SPAN></SPAN>iFly55</SPAN></SPAN>, most likely the prosecutor would want to do it the other way around (drop the failure to show insurance slip ticket, and ding you with a speeding ticket). But in the case you do have the two tickets against you, try to do what I suggested and pay for the proof of insurance. Will it affect negatively your insurance rates? Depends on your insurance company and a few other factors. I do not believe for one second the link to the PDF by the Insurance Bureau of Canada</SPAN>. There are so many insurance companies in this country that no one can make generalizations about the definitions of a minor ticket, or how much (%) will it increase your premiums. There are enormous differences from company to company. </SPAN></SPAN>

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I see on the back of the ticket in the notice to appear section, that I can check a box to have a representative represent me. Do I need to fill this in when I'm submitting my tickets at the courthouse, or can I arrange to have a representative (paralegal) after the fact. Can't seem to find these details in the "What to do when you want to fight your ticket in court" sticky.</SPAN></SPAN>

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You can arrange to contract a paralegal after the fact. This is a decision that you can make at any point during the process.</SPAN></SPAN>