But will the company even be around by the time it's supposed to hit dealership floors?
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LiveWire Has a New EV Motorcycle Coming Soon, But Who Is It For?
- Thread starter GTAM
- Start date
Hey all - members may start seeing more threads like this popping up in the general forums. This is actually a bit of background function that digs up interesting motorcycle related content and makes posts on the topic for us to share.
We're going to start moving more of these out into the forums to strike up some new topics of discussion.
They all link to an article so you have to click-through to read the actual story on the source website, but perhaps I'll post a quick synopsis of the article along with the first reply and then we can discuss.
Let us know your thoughts.
Anyhow, the article synopsis:
LiveWire, Harley-Davidson's electric motorcycle division, is set to unveil its latest model, the S2 Alpinista, on January 15, 2025. This new addition to the S2 lineup is anticipated to offer a blend of performance and practicality, appealing to both urban commuters and adventure enthusiasts. Teaser images suggest that the Alpinista shares its platform with the S2 Mulholland but features enhancements such as a taller windscreen and optional side cases, indicating a focus on versatility and rider comfort.
However, LiveWire has faced several challenges leading up to this launch. The company has been experiencing financial difficulties, including significant cash burn, which has led to a reorganization of its operations. Notably, LiveWire had to move back into Harley-Davidson's main campus in Wisconsin and has merged back with Harley-Davidson for its executive functions. These developments have raised questions about the brand's direction and sustainability.
Additionally, LiveWire has encountered issues with its previous models. The S2 Del Mar, for instance, was noted for its harsh ride quality, attributed to overly stiff suspension settings and an uncomfortable seat. Furthermore, in August 2024, the S2 Del Mar and Mulholland were recalled due to high voltage fuse issues that could lead to sudden loss of propulsion. This history of recalls and performance criticisms may affect consumer confidence as the Alpinista enters the market.
Despite these challenges, LiveWire is moving forward with the Alpinista, aiming to attract a broader range of riders. The name "Alpinista," meaning "mountaineer" in Italian and Spanish, suggests a design focus that accommodates both city riding and more adventurous terrains. Marketing visuals filmed in mountainous regions, such as Park City, Utah, reinforce this adventurous spirit. However, some critics argue that electric motorcycles may not yet be fully suited for such environments due to range limitations and charging infrastructure concerns.
As the launch date approaches, enthusiasts and critics alike are keen to see how LiveWire addresses these concerns and whether the S2 Alpinista can overcome the hurdles faced by its predecessors. The success of this model could play a pivotal role in determining LiveWire's future in the competitive electric motorcycle market.
We're going to start moving more of these out into the forums to strike up some new topics of discussion.
They all link to an article so you have to click-through to read the actual story on the source website, but perhaps I'll post a quick synopsis of the article along with the first reply and then we can discuss.
Let us know your thoughts.
Anyhow, the article synopsis:
LiveWire, Harley-Davidson's electric motorcycle division, is set to unveil its latest model, the S2 Alpinista, on January 15, 2025. This new addition to the S2 lineup is anticipated to offer a blend of performance and practicality, appealing to both urban commuters and adventure enthusiasts. Teaser images suggest that the Alpinista shares its platform with the S2 Mulholland but features enhancements such as a taller windscreen and optional side cases, indicating a focus on versatility and rider comfort.
However, LiveWire has faced several challenges leading up to this launch. The company has been experiencing financial difficulties, including significant cash burn, which has led to a reorganization of its operations. Notably, LiveWire had to move back into Harley-Davidson's main campus in Wisconsin and has merged back with Harley-Davidson for its executive functions. These developments have raised questions about the brand's direction and sustainability.
Additionally, LiveWire has encountered issues with its previous models. The S2 Del Mar, for instance, was noted for its harsh ride quality, attributed to overly stiff suspension settings and an uncomfortable seat. Furthermore, in August 2024, the S2 Del Mar and Mulholland were recalled due to high voltage fuse issues that could lead to sudden loss of propulsion. This history of recalls and performance criticisms may affect consumer confidence as the Alpinista enters the market.
Despite these challenges, LiveWire is moving forward with the Alpinista, aiming to attract a broader range of riders. The name "Alpinista," meaning "mountaineer" in Italian and Spanish, suggests a design focus that accommodates both city riding and more adventurous terrains. Marketing visuals filmed in mountainous regions, such as Park City, Utah, reinforce this adventurous spirit. However, some critics argue that electric motorcycles may not yet be fully suited for such environments due to range limitations and charging infrastructure concerns.
As the launch date approaches, enthusiasts and critics alike are keen to see how LiveWire addresses these concerns and whether the S2 Alpinista can overcome the hurdles faced by its predecessors. The success of this model could play a pivotal role in determining LiveWire's future in the competitive electric motorcycle market.
I love the look of the Livewire and think it can do good business….but 30k for a bike with let’s say 100mi range…
Good luck selling that to anyone but true first adopters.
Good luck selling that to anyone but true first adopters.
Seems like riders have been first-adopting EV motorcycles for the last decade and a half!
Recharging has to be as quick and painless as ICE before I move off that platform. I'm not a Go-For-A-45-Minute-Ride-Then-Park-The-Bike-For-A-Few-Days-While-It-Recharges kinda rider.
That means huge strides in technology still have to be made with respects to:
- energy density of batteries and range
- recharge times
- availability of chargers on a global basis (not just California)
And gimme my damn clutch!
Yep, standardization has to be key for widespread adoption. Imagine only being able to gas up at PetroCans?
beta vs VHS......
Small bike battery will be limited in max charge rate. You might still be able to fill up in 20 minutes or so but the magic of a two minute fill requires different battery chemistry. The charger has the juice but the battery just can't drink that fast.
Scudworth
Member
Time for bikes with super capacitors, get that charge time down to seconds.
I think EV bikes are great in concept, but they're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Bikes are already fuel efficient, and places that have a lot of pollution caused by bikes can't afford the prices of these EV bikes. They need to find a way to introduce the PHEV model on bikes, however that would add a ton of weight that nobody wants...
I think EV bikes are great in concept, but they're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Bikes are already fuel efficient, and places that have a lot of pollution caused by bikes can't afford the prices of these EV bikes. They need to find a way to introduce the PHEV model on bikes, however that would add a ton of weight that nobody wants...
Supercaps have been a thing we’ve all been hearing about and promised for about a decade now, but never seems to actually materialize.
It would be a game changer to be able to charge a 200-ish km bike in 30-60 seconds. That would fit the needs of many. Not all by any stretch, but when the average motorcyclist rides 1000km a year, it’s evident it would indeed work for many.
While they would be great to use, packaging for them on a bike is work. Zero motorcycles are ~15kwh battery packs. Battery weighs <50lbs. A 15 kwh supercap that is wall-mounted, not weather resistant and can't handle vibration is >200 lbs. By the time it was sealed and hardened for a bike, that's probably close to 300 lbs instead of <50 for li-ion.
To me supercaps are a better fit for long-distance range extension on cages. As charge rate collapses as you try to fill battery to 100%, a supercap about 10-20% of the main battery capacity would allow supercharging to 100% quickly. As an added bonus, if you have time, you can charge to 120% (full main battery plus supercap).
EDIT:
The "supercap" I was using for comparison may actually be a hybrid supercap/battery and the math is even worse. It's not easy to get clean info on supercaps.
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Been played with for a while by BMW
BMW Debuts Concept Supercap Hybrid X3 SUV
BMW X3 Hybrid. Note location of supercaps in the doorsill. BMW has introduced its latest supercap hybrid concept vehicle (earlier post) at the Frankfurt IAA: the Concept X3 EfficientDynamics. The X3 concept is another performance hybrid SUV. Combining a next-generation direct-injection inline...
www.greencarcongress.com
That's using them as hybrid support which is a great use case but entirely different than storing grid energy for propulsion. Hybrid support has many cool options for storing tons of power for a short time. IIRC, F1 cars use(d?) a gyroscope in helium spinning a gazillion rpm for that purpose.Been played with for a while by BMW
View attachment 71969
BMW Debuts Concept Supercap Hybrid X3 SUV
BMW X3 Hybrid. Note location of supercaps in the doorsill. BMW has introduced its latest supercap hybrid concept vehicle (earlier post) at the Frankfurt IAA: the Concept X3 EfficientDynamics. The X3 concept is another performance hybrid SUV. Combining a next-generation direct-injection inline...www.greencarcongress.com
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