LIDAR and general court proceedings qs | GTAMotorcycle.com

LIDAR and general court proceedings qs

daught

daught

Well-known member
I got a LIDAR court date coming up for allegedly speeding on Dundas east of Trafalgar. That section of the road is 60 now that it's three lanes, but when it was one lane it was 80.

In my disclosure I asked for

1. The officer’s notes regarding the alleged infractions, including explanations or shorthand, or
coded notes by the officer.
2. A typed version of any hand written notes.
3. Both sides of the officer’s copy of the Ticket.
4. Information about any speed monitoring devices used in the alleged offence.
5. A copy of the officer’s training record, or certificate of qualification specific to said speed-
monitoring device, or speed estimation device.
6. A copy of the calibration, and repair history of any speed-monitoring device used in this alleged
offence.
7. A copy of the operator’s manual for said speed-monitoring device.
9. And any other document that the Crown, or Crown’s witness, may rely on at trial.
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I received a copy of the ticket

And two printouts

eNM2RqY.jpg


a7BUW8o.jpg


I did not receive any certifications or traing information except in the first document where it says "August 2014". Is it reasonable to ask he shows a certification document. If he does not have it, can I question it's validity and the fact that he can't prove he was trained for that exact unit.

The second document I assume it is a confirmation that that the unit passed testing at the end of the shift. That is at 5:20PM. In the first document the unit was tested at 9:30AM. The second test just says PASS, there is no detailed information on what tests were performed. Also isn't it a bit too long before tests? I am sure the officer must have had lunch or moved. How often should the unit be tested?

I plan to question his testing procedure step by step. If he omit steps it should help me, no?

What else can I use for defense?
 
It looks like the LIDAR was tested to ensure it measures distance correctly but I don't see anywhere about when it was last tested to ensure it measures speed accurately.

That may not be done in a daily basis but I am certain that needs to be done as part of regular maintenance.

Maybe it's worth finding more about that requirement for the LIDAR make/model listed above and find out if that testing was done per manufacture recommendation.
 
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Hope this helps

The transcript is linked to the post.

ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic7286.html

not sure if this is allowed to be posted in the forum
 
Not sure what the threshold for testing of a LIDAR unit is. But with radar units we had to show it was tested at the beginning and end of shift. Not sure if what you have been provided for the end of shift test will meet the criteria that will be determined by the JP. As for the officers certification a copy of this document is normally wither held by the crown, (in some departments they have a "court liason" officer, who will have it and it will normally, be introduced at trial.
 
Wasn't there some precedent or legislation in the last five years that basically said the speed measuring device is assumed to be accurate unless proven otherwise?
 
Scientific devices require regular maintenance/calibration in order to keep the status of being called scientific.
 
hedo2002 said:
Not sure what the threshold for testing of a LIDAR unit is. But with radar units we had to show it was tested at the beginning and end of shift. Not sure if what you have been provided for the end of shift test will meet the criteria that will be determined by the JP. As for the officers certification a copy of this document is normally wither held by the crown, (in some departments they have a "court liason" officer, who will have it and it will normally, be introduced at trial.
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We? Are/were you a cop?

Was there any requirement of regularly testing to see if the speed shown by the device is same as the actual speed of the target? (Not the same as measuring distance between two fixed points)
 
samurai said:
Scientific devices require regular maintenance/calibration in order to keep the status of being called scientific.
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Not if a judge says otherwise
 
LIDAR pretty much measures the distance an object is away from source and compares the distances of it over time. With rate of change of distance and time, you can easily figure out velocity. Unlike Radar, LIDAR is more specific to the object that the operator is pointing at, rather than the field of traffic that radar measures.

Cheers.
 
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Former officer LONG ago..lol The "testing" an officer on patrol conducts is merely a set of "tests" conducted by the instrument, for Lidar. For radar we used to use a tuning fork which when vibrating and placed in front of the radar was expected to give the result of a "speed reading of 100 km/h" based on the frequency produced by the tuning fork. Any other "testing or calibrations" were done at an off site facility. The units were sent out on a regualr basis, (as specified by the manufacturer), to this facility, they returned the unit along with documentation signing off on the accuracy of the unit etc. These documents were available at the court house if needed.

samurai said:
We? Are/were you a cop?

Was there any requirement of regularly testing to see if the speed shown by the device is same as the actual speed of the target? (Not the same as measuring distance between two fixed points)
Click to expand...
 
hedo2002 said:
Former officer LONG ago..lol The "testing" an officer on patrol conducts is merely a set of "tests" conducted by the instrument, for Lidar. For radar we used to use a tuning fork which when vibrating and placed in front of the radar was expected to give the result of a "speed reading of 100 km/h" based on the frequency produced by the tuning fork. Any other "testing or calibrations" were done at an off site facility. The units were sent out on a regualr basis, (as specified by the manufacturer), to this facility, they returned the unit along with documentation signing off on the accuracy of the unit etc. These documents were available at the court house if needed.
Click to expand...

Considering I did not get entire manual, and I asked in the disclosure for the repair/calibration history, how do I know if this unit has been properly maintained? If i ask the officer about the maintenance history, and he says lets say 2 years since it's been sent for maintenance, what can I say?

Jimsun said:
Hope this helps

The transcript is linked to the post.

ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic7286.html

not sure if this is allowed to be posted in the forum
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Thx, that is a great transcript to look at and get a feel of the proceedings.
 
One more thing, what exactly are the typed pages I received? Are those officers notes or they are the officers notes transcript? I did not get any handwritten notes.
 
The forum i provided you with are better at handling your questions.. you should sign up
 
daught said:
One more thing, what exactly are the typed pages I received? Are those officers notes or they are the officers notes transcript? I did not get any handwritten notes.
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And whatever that is it's not signed by anyone.
 
It's is highly unlikely someone else produced the notes than the offices involved...only they would have known the specific that are in the notes, someone else may have typed them up. (Translated from written to typed)
 
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