Liable for the sold bike in accident? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Liable for the sold bike in accident?

dragonrider

Well-known member
Hi everybody, a scenario came up when we were chatting about seeing more accidents now. Say if someone bought a bike on a private sale and never bothered to switch the ownership and he gets into accident, is the original owner of the bike liable for anything, assuming bill of sale in place and ownership signed away already. There are reasonable arguments from either angle. Very interesting topic. Anyone here has any experience or knowledge on this scenario?

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theoretically yes
in the case of a nasty accident with serious injuries/death
if a vehicle you owned still is reg in your name
you could be a party named in the law suit

if you have the docs proving sale you should be okay
you can also go to SO and notify them you have sold the vehicle
so this is on file in the eventuality the buyer is a scum bag
 
BOTH buyer and seller are responsible for transferring ownership promptly.

Do NOT under any circumstance leave your plate(s) on the vehicle.

know someone who didn't remove their plates on a car. car was involved in an accident. Ended up having to get a lawyer...

keep a copy of bill of sale for yourself.
 
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25 years ago I sold a bike to someone I knew through work. He didn't change the ownership and a few months later he let a friend ride the bike who crashed and left the bike in a ditch. I got a call from the cops saying that they had found my bike. I explained I had sold it. Then about a year later I got a bill from the towing / storage company for $8k on a bike I sold for $500. I told them to sell it to recover costs.

Up until that point I had never kept a copy of the bill of sale when selling a vehicle. I got off lucky that time but now make sure I have evidence of the sale.
 
25 years ago I sold a bike to someone I knew through work. He didn't change the ownership and a few months later he let a friend ride the bike who crashed and left the bike in a ditch. I got a call from the cops saying that they had found my bike. I explained I had sold it. Then about a year later I got a bill from the towing / storage company for $8k on a bike I sold for $500. I told them to sell it to recover costs.

Up until that point I had never kept a copy of the bill of sale when selling a vehicle. I got off lucky that time but now make sure I have evidence of the sale.

I'm not sure how the lien act works. If you owe $8,000 and they only get $500 for the vehicle can they go after you in court or the other $7500?

I know I sound paranoid on this but if your name isn't on the ownership you don't have to worry about the knock on the door. A lawyer can get you off in a lot of cases but it won't be cheap.

If you have doubts a trip to Service Ontario can confirm a transfer. If it hasn't been transferred you can have them make a note on their records.

Re Bill of sale etc. The buyer rides dirty and crashes into something or someone. Runs away and destroys his copies. Does the seller have any proof of the sale, a copy of the receipt or a photocopy of the cheque? Ugly!
 
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I'm not sure how the lien act works. If you owe $8,000 and they only get $500 for the vehicle can they go after you in court or the other $7500?

I know I sound paranoid on this but if your name isn't on the ownership you don't have to worry about the knock on the door. A lawyer can get you off in a lot of cases but it won't be cheap.

If you have doubts a trip to Service Ontario can confirm a transfer. If it hasn't been transferred you can have them make a note on their records.

Re Bill of sale etc. The buyer rides dirty and crashes into something or someone. Runs away and destroys his copies. Does the seller have any proof of the sale, a copy of the receipt or a photocopy of the cheque? Ugly!


Like I said, I got lucky. I think I could have probably been held liable for the outstanding towing / storage fees. I write a second bill of sale and have the purchaser sign it with their contact information.
 
25 years ago I sold a bike to someone I knew through work. He didn't change the ownership and a few months later he let a friend ride the bike who crashed and left the bike in a ditch. I got a call from the cops saying that they had found my bike. I explained I had sold it. Then about a year later I got a bill from the towing / storage company for $8k on a bike I sold for $500. I told them to sell it to recover costs.

Up until that point I had never kept a copy of the bill of sale when selling a vehicle. I got off lucky that time but now make sure I have evidence of the sale.

I had the exact same issue with a car back before UVIPs. I sold a Buick LeSabre that had a blown engine, to my boss.
He dropped a new engine in it and his dad drove it around on dealer plates, without switching the ownership.
A couple of years later, I get a call from a towing company for storage. I was lucky as well.

A year later, my old boss wanted a job reference.
 
The answer here is to take the time to go to the MTO/Service ON office to transfer the ownership vs. just signing this off on the registration. 60 - 90 minutes of your time ensures no future unpleasant surprises.
 
You gave them your plate?
That makes no sense; if they never transferred ownership they are riding with no plates on the bike, if you failed to cancel your insurance and leave your plate on the bike that would be your silly mistake. With no plate the rider would be liable for riding without insurance and for riding with an invalid or no plate, can only assume they also never had the vehicle safety certified which is a requirement of resale and ownership change.

Totally different story if you still own and insure the bike and some guy steals it then crashes :/ your insurance and our insurance rates collectively are on the line for that one.

... was there still time on your license plate registration? You get a little money back when you turn in the old plate.
 
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I didn't give him my plate. I still have and use that plate. The motorcycle had the plate and insurance removed and it left my house on a truck. I wrote him a safety for it so there was no reason it wasn't transferred.
 
Earlier, it was mentioned not to leave the plates on a vehicle when sold. Understandable. Is there a process that could be followed that would allow a seller to safely transfer the plates to the buyer, if desired. I'm thinking here of vanity plates which match the vehicle. These could be valueless to the seller once the sale is complete, and could be desired by the buyer.
 
Earlier, it was mentioned not to leave the plates on a vehicle when sold. Understandable. Is there a process that could be followed that would allow a seller to safely transfer the plates to the buyer, if desired. I'm thinking here of vanity plates which match the vehicle. These could be valueless to the seller once the sale is complete, and could be desired by the buyer.
I don't know the process, but yes there is one. And some people pay handsomely for them. A guy I know has "GO LEAFS" never been installed. Best offer so far has been $5k. He turned it down.

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Licence plates can not be generally transferred to a new owner. There are a few extremely limited exceptions (family members, basically) but even then the options are very limited.

Someone "buying" a personalized plate from a stranger is never going to be able to use it, so it'd be something they could hang in their garage/shop/house or whatever, but not actually ever attach to a car. Plates actually belong to the crown and could even be seized if the buyer brings it to a Service Ontario and tries to register it to a vehicle after having said they purchased it, for that matter.

Anyhow, as for worrying about a vehicle you sold, there is a process to absolve yourself of any liability - simply take your bill of sale and the VIN to Service Ontario and there is a form you can fill out that removes the vehicle from your name. Until the new owner registers it in their own it's basically in limbo as an "unregistered vehicle".

I discovered this last summer (I post about it here somewhere) when I went to buy a new plate sticker for my motorcycle and she asked if I wanted a sticker for the 2003, or the 1983. The 1983 was a motorcycle I sold somewhere around 1996 but the new owner apparently never (to this day) transferred it. It was at the same time when out of curiousity I asked her to check and found various other vehicles/trailers I'd sold over the years still in my name as well - I filled out all the forms right there and then and had them removed. A horse trailer I sold 3 years ago was still in my name, a 1974 camper trailer I sold around 1995 the same, as well as a few other things.
 
Licence plates can not be generally transferred to a new owner. There are a few extremely limited exceptions (family members, basically) but even then the options are very limited.

Someone "buying" a personalized plate from a stranger is never going to be able to use it, so it'd be something they could hang in their garage/shop/house or whatever, but not actually ever attach to a car. Plates actually belong to the crown and could even be seized if the buyer brings it to a Service Ontario and tries to register it to a vehicle after having said they purchased it, for that matter.

Anyhow, as for worrying about a vehicle you sold, there is a process to absolve yourself of any liability - simply take your bill of sale and the VIN to Service Ontario and there is a form you can fill out that removes the vehicle from your name. Until the new owner registers it in their own it's basically in limbo as an "unregistered vehicle".

I discovered this last summer (I post about it here somewhere) when I went to buy a new plate sticker for my motorcycle and she asked if I wanted a sticker for the 2003, or the 1983. The 1983 was a motorcycle I sold somewhere around 1996 but the new owner apparently never (to this day) transferred it. It was at the same time when out of curiousity I asked her to check and found various other vehicles/trailers I'd sold over the years still in my name as well - I filled out all the forms right there and then and had them removed. A horse trailer I sold 3 years ago was still in my name, a 1974 camper trailer I sold around 1995 the same, as well as a few other things.


They can can be transferred to anyone and still be used. As long as they were never attached to a vehicle and only once.
 
They can can be transferred to anyone and still be used. As long as they were never attached to a vehicle and only once.

True, for custom plates purchased specifically as a gift. Big caveat in the bold part above. Once they've been used you can't do much with them anymore, much less sell them to a stranger.

Well..you CAN sell them...but the buyer might be ****** when they find out they can't be attached, and since they'd remain in the original owners name there's a potential can of worms liability wise as well.
 
I don't normally disagree with you @PrivatePilot, but this is one of those times. True that the plate cannot be transferred, but there is an obvious loophole. Seller and buyer go to Service Ontario together...seller turns in old plates, buyer orders them through S.O. because they are now available. This would be after $$ has changed hands, of course.

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True that the plate cannot be transferred, but there is an obvious loophole. Seller and buyer go to Service Ontario together...seller turns in old plates, buyer orders them through S.O. because they are now available. This would be after $$ has changed hands, of course.

Sorry. ;)

https://www.wheels.ca/news/most-personal-plates-must-be-returned-to-ministry/

Q: Can personalized licence plates be sold and transferred to someone else?

If returned to the ministry, could someone else then buy the same personalized plate combination?

A: Ontario Transportation Ministry spokesperson Bob Nichols replies:

By law, number plates are Crown property and shall be returned when no longer in use or when requested by the ministry.

Number plates cannot be sold privately.

Personalized (“own-choice”) plates returned to the ministry are terminated and can’t be re-issued to a different requestor.

And here's the specific restrictions on transfers:

Plate transfers are not permitted, except under these special conditions:

Company to an employee or officer of the company, or to a family member of the president or sole owner.

Individual to company.

Individual to leasing company, or leasing company to operator of vehicle.

Individual to family member.

A transfer to an unrelated vehicle purchaser may be permitted where there is a strong existing relationship between the two parties, and the buyer has been the operator of the vehicle prior to the transfer as co-habitant, or the co-habitant’s parents.

All transfers are subject to ministry approval.

I know this article is fairly old but AFAIK the policies have not changed.
 
@PrivatePilot I get what the law "says". I'm merely suggesting that one could let another know when said plates are once again available. And charge a "finder's fee". Creative wording lol.
TBH, I thought that the unmounted plates could be transferred.
Meh. Not the first time I have been wrong and won't be the last.

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