Legality of a home-made moped (mounting a gas engine to a bicycle) | GTAMotorcycle.com

Legality of a home-made moped (mounting a gas engine to a bicycle)

M

MarcosSantiago

Well-known member
So I was looking (half seriously and half not) to get an ebike and modify it so it is powered by two engines instead of one (to be used in a private track only, obviously). I posted before that I think it is unfair that ebikes don't need practically anything to hit the road, and motorcycles need insurance, license, plate, sticker, helmet, and other restrictions, etc.

This was the thread where I posted those opinions, and people question the legality of insurance (or lack of).
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?171581-Road-legal-mopeds


So I was searching Kijiji earlier today to get started with this project, and I saw that people are building motorized bicycles (I guess the term is home-made moped) by attaching a gas engine to a regular bicycle. There is a kit with an 80cc engine, and there are some crazy people adapting lawnmower engines to a bicycle. Top speeds? Some claim 95 kph, fast enough to get in the highway... :p

I have a Poulan Lawnmower (the one from the Costco) with a Honda 160cc GCV motor, which is an air-cooled 4-stroke OHC; 4.4 HP (3.3 kW) @ 3600 rpm. Can I just mount it on my bicycle and go for a ride? :p Forget about safety for a minute - can a police officer ticket me for building such thing? can they keep it? what I do 95 kph on a 40? Can they charge me with stunt driving? What if I refuse to produce my license (it is a bicycle)?

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...cycles-For-Sale-400-and-Up-W0QQAdIdZ490291206

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-bikes-other-Motorized-Custom-bicycles-W0QQAdIdZ490475144
 
Check the video so you get the idea of the 80cc commercial kit:

[video=youtube;yOc-Cld6HfU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOc-Cld6HfU[/video]
 
Check this ad in Kijiji, see the photos:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...-60-KMPH-BEST-DEAL-ONTARIO-W0QQAdIdZ487328414

"After six years of creating electric and gas bicycles, I'm finally able to offer my finished products to the public. They also won't brake your wallet I make only $100 off every bike I create, good luck finding anyone else willing to do that!

These gas and electric bikes require no license, no insurance and only the experience of riding a bike."
 
Here are the photos in case the ad in kijiji is taken down:

See the Honda lawnmower engine?

Honda_bicycle.jpg



Honda_bicycle_2.jpg
 
I believe you are uncharted legal territory, and I think we have discussed this before. It is unfortunate that these bicycles with home implemented motors are not legal. They do fall through the cracks.

Bicycles with a motor are not a legal moped. I know of no way to classify them as a moped. They are not an e-bike as they lack an electric engine. They are no longer classified as a bicycle. They are also not a limited speed motorcycle (LSM) because this is a designation from a manufacturer. They are certainly not a motorcycle.

Though the police will usually ignore you, I am unsure what the police will do if they stop you. Certainly if you have a 120cc engine on your bicycle this seems very dangerous. The frame and wheels are simply not strong enough to withstand the force this engine could output. Even mopeds are build more sturdily than a bicycle.

I do recall the police telling someone, possibly on this forum, to not ride his motor assisted bicycle, but I cannot find the thread. If they are not classified as legal, then I would assume that they are illegal.
 
That lawnmower one will chew through tires (and possibly crank bearings in the honda) like no tomorrow.

I can't imagine cops treating this any other way than a motor vehicle. Just because you started with a bike frame, that doesn't mean it's still a bike. I expect the collection of tickets given to pocket bikes (no insurance, no helmet, unlicensed vehicle and possibly incorrect license (although you have your M, you wouldn't get this one)).
 
it seems in the KW region,,, police have differing opinions among themselves... I watched a homemade bike get pulled over.. cop was real aggressive about getting him stopped. The rider stopped as soon as he knew the cop wanted him.. and talked very politely.. and agreed with everything the cop asked.. then rode off on his way with NO tickets.... ??!!!?? .... but another incident.. they cop relaxed a bit.. and only wrote one ticket.. something to do with an engine on a bicycle. [ I didn't see the writing on the ticket ] ...... another 2 I know of.. they were hit with operation of a motor vehicle while suspended.. as well as a few other charges ,, no helmet, no insurance.. one of those guys couldn't pay his fines and spent 21 days in the can for unpaid fines! and he is walking to work now....... and I still see another guy still riding ,, sort of under the radar.. his engine has a muffler,,he wears a helmet,, lots of baggage on the bike.. and uses hand signals, and stays well to the side of the road.. so I suspect no one reports him,, and the cops don't even pick up there is a engine ... it is roulette on the street with that sort of bike,,,, personally I don't have a problem with the "sane" riders... it is the ones that ride like almost all the Ebike riders that make you wonder why they don't need a license..
 
These are totally illegal on Ontario roads, unfortunately. You would have to register it as a "Home built vehicle", and theres no provisions in the Ontario registration system to specifically account for this (same reason kit cars are such a pain) and its just entirely not worth it.

That said, you most likely wont get busted by a cop unless you're doing something ridiculously stupid on it, because most cops wont give it a second look. Give it a really good muffler so the 2 stroke noise is barely noticeable, or use a 4 stroke motor, follow all the rules of the road, and keep it under 30, and you shouldnt have a problem. However, I wouldnt carry my drivers licence, and do whatever you would do if you got pulled over on a bicycle and feign ignorance, let them take it if they want it rather than get a ticket.
 
My neighbour built one of those. They're neat little contraptions. I asked him what his experience has been with cops and he told me he hasn't talked to one yet. He has ridden past a handful, he says, but they haven't pulled him over anything. Just remember to follow the speed limit and wear a helmet, and ride IT ON THE ROAD, just like any other bicycle.
 
MarcosSantiago said:
Can I just mount it on my bicycle and go for a ride? :p
1- can a police officer ticket me for building such thing?
2- can they keep it?
3- what I do 95 kph on a 40? Can they charge me with stunt driving?
4- What if I refuse to produce my license (it is a bicycle)?
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1- No, building it is not an offense. Using it on a highway, yes.
2- Yes, sort of. The HTA allows for a vehicle to be seized and held until the end of proceedings (conviction or acquittal for, as far as I remember, arrestable offenses only. This is a VERY rare occurrence. In the case of driving while suspended, the HTA allows for a 3 month impoundment upon conviction. There is nothing in the HTA that allows for permanent seizure of a vehicle.
3- Yes. A vehicle not driven by muscle power is a motor vehicle UNLESS exempted as described by the Act. Your bike is not exempted.
4- As stated in #3, you're now not on a bicycle, but on a motor vehicle and as such, required to show a licence. Even if it WAS just a bicycle, you are still required to ID yourself when demanded to by police.

bobjohnson said:
However, I wouldnt carry my drivers licence, and do whatever you would do if you got pulled over on a bicycle and feign ignorance, let them take it if they want it rather than get a ticket.
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No requirement to show a licence when on a bicycle, but still required to ID. Get a ticket on a bicycle and it'll likely marry up to your licence, especially when the officer runs you and obtains your licence number anyway.

That ALL said, don't attract attention to yourself and you're not likely to get pulled over.
 
When I was in traffic court in st. Kitts the guy infront of me had gotten no insurance, no plates the works. Cop ticketed him like he was driving an unplated or insured vehicle. From his defence he was a menonite who drove 5 mins down the road on it to work. Got off on all charges and had to pay a small fine. But you could be in a world of hurt.
 
Most lawnmowers are vertical shaft engine, which can only be powered with the driveshaft pointing down. You cannot turn the engine on it's side >> no lubrication. Make sure you have a horizontal drive shaft engine (chainsaw, weed trimmer, some lawnmowers). Most of these engines come with a centrifugal clutch so you'll be good to go.

Good luck with the project.
 
coyo said:
No requirement to show a licence when on a bicycle, but still required to ID. Get a ticket on a bicycle and it'll likely marry up to your licence, especially when the officer runs you and obtains your licence number anyway
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about this bit. Offences committed on a bicycle MUST be marked as such on the ticket (if they don't mark it as a bicycle offence and don't mark a plate down, then you can possibly have it dismissed as an incorrectly-written ticket) and do NOT appear on your driver's abstract (any more than would a ticket for jaywalking). So while he may certainly get a ticket for unplated/uninsured/illegal homebrew, that wouldn't actually link to his insurance or driving record.
 
Thank you all for your posts and your links.

Times are changing. It is disheartening that (pretty much) everything is so heavily regulated in Ontario. They either get you one way or the other.

I just don't have appetite for a $5,000 ticket. I'll just scrap this project.
I guess I better go back to the usual hobby in Toronto... watching TV. :rolleyes:
If I feel man enough, maybe I'll buy myself a remote controlled toy helicopter from The Source ... :rolleyes: ... I see a lot of grown men doing that.

Sometimes it sucks living here. Is there anything fun to do that is not forbidden?
 
MarcosSantiago said:
Sometimes it sucks living here. Is there anything fun to do that is not forbidden?
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If any political party ever runs an election with the platform that they will only remove laws and loosen restrictions, and impose NO NEW LAWS, they will get my vote!
 
Totally agree I think that two old laws should be removed before one new one can be introduced.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
If it's an HTA offense, then it's an HTA offense that will show on your abstract, regardless of the vehicle you're operating. Same as getting a "disobey sign" under a city by-law while driving your car WON'T show up on your abstract; because by-laws don't show up on abstracts.

Mongrel said:
I'm not sure about this bit. Offences committed on a bicycle MUST be marked as such on the ticket (if they don't mark it as a bicycle offence and don't mark a plate down, then you can possibly have it dismissed as an incorrectly-written ticket) and do NOT appear on your driver's abstract (any more than would a ticket for jaywalking). So while he may certainly get a ticket for unplated/uninsured/illegal homebrew, that wouldn't actually link to his insurance or driving record.
Click to expand...
 
Section 210 (1.1) explicitly states that the only offences which appear on your abstract are ones committed in/on i) "A motor vehicle or street car within the meaning of this Act.", ii) "A vessel within the meaning of section 48." (this refers to a DUI when driving a boat) or iii) "A motorized snow vehicle."

So no, any offence committed on a bicycle is not communicated to the registrar (i.e. it's not supposed to show on your abstract). Believe me I know, I had to have one of these removed after it was improperly added and the Ministry DID remove it and confirmed everything.

There's even a little box on the current tickets that the cop is supposed to tick off if it's a bicycle offence.

Anyway, the question here is if legally these home-brew bicycles would be considered a motor vehicle. The definitions in the HTA are given as:

“bicycle” includes a tricycle, a unicycle and a power-assisted bicycle but does not include a motor-assisted bicycle; (“bicyclette”)

“motor assisted bicycle” means a bicycle,
(a) that is fitted with pedals that are operable at all times to propel the bicycle,
(b) that weighs not more than fifty-five kilograms,
(c) that has no hand or foot operated clutch or gearbox driven by the motor and transferring power to the driven wheel,
(d) that has an attached motor driven by electricity or having a piston displacement of not more than fifty cubic centimetres, and
(e) that does not have sufficient power to enable the bicycle to attain a speed greater than 50 kilometres per hour on level ground within a distance of 2 kilometres from a standing start; (“cyclomoteur”)

“motor vehicle” includes an automobile, a motorcycle, a motor-assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act, and any other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power, but does not include a street car or other motor vehicle running only upon rails, a power-assisted bicycle, a motorized snow vehicle, a traction engine, a farm tractor, a self-propelled implement of husbandry or a road-building machine; (“véhicule automobile”)

“motorcycle” means a self-propelled vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the driver and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and includes a motor scooter, but does not include a motor assisted bicycle; (“motocyclette”)
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Since motorcycle is a catchall term for anything that wouldn't fall under "motor-assisted bicycle" (which has some fairly specific requirements), I suspect these things would actually count as an unlicensed illegal motorcycle. Unless the displacement is under 50, in which case it may count as a motor-assisted bicycle after all.

Either way, it's definitely not a bicycle. Some cops may not really have that section of the HTA memorized and assume that they're treated like e-bikes, but all it takes is one cop in a pissy mood who knows the HTA to royally **** you sideways for riding your homebrew buzzer.
 
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Mongrel said:
Section 210 (1.1) explicitly states that the only offences which appear on your abstract are ones committed in/on i) "A motor vehicle or street car within the meaning of this Act.", ii) "A vessel within the meaning of section 48." (this refers to a DUI when driving a boat) or iii) "A motorized snow vehicle."

So no, any offence committed on a bicycle is not communicated to the registrar (i.e. it's not supposed to show on your abstract). Believe me I know, I had to have one of these removed after it was improperly added and the Ministry DID remove it and confirmed everything.

There's even a little box on the current tickets that the cop is supposed to tick off if it's a bicycle offence.
Click to expand...

Well looky there, I didn't know that. Although the box states "non-motor vehicle", not bicycle.

And it looks like I was also wrong on the by-law not showing up on your abstract... although I've never heard of one showing up.
 
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