Left hand turn, yellow light question | GTAMotorcycle.com

Left hand turn, yellow light question

H

Heero

New member
If someone enters the intersection on a yellow light, and the person turning left turns into that person causing an accident, who is at fault? The person making the left issued a citation also.
 
The person turning left. Yellow means proceed with caution, for both directions. It doesn't mean the person waiting to turn left has right of way. I think most of the time if you turn left into someone in any situation it will be your fault (turning across traffic, pulling out to pass someone, doing a u turn, etc...)



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This happened to my friend, he was turning left on a yellow and someone entered the intersection at either a yellow or a red (he can't remember), he hit them and was charged with an improper left turn and also received an at fault on his record.
 
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Person making left is at fault, oncoming traffic going straight has right of way. they may not be able to stop/slow but the person making left turn can.
 
Doesn't really matter because you'll be hurt, I never assume anyone is going to do the correct thing on the road

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Left Turner is always at least partially at fault (there are only a very few exceptions). The yellow runner is more complicated, someone would need to make a decision whether they should have been able to safely stop.

If you are worried about insurance search for "fault determination rules" and try to find your scenario
 
I doubt an intersection would ever be treated as a 100% at fault vs 0%, but the the breakdown would likely be due to things like who is turning vs going straight, who hit who, etc, etc. That said, I figure most intersection based accidents are treated closer to 50/50.
 
In my experience almost always the left Turner is the only one charged

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griff2 said:
Unless the straight-through vehicle is running a red at Warp 9.
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Or hopefully in my case I was turning left on an amber when twitess jumped the gun and made a left on a red. Her green wasn't that advanced.

Brakes are wonderful things.
 
Heero said:
If someone enters the intersection on a yellow light, and the person turning left turns into that person causing an accident, who is at fault? The person making the left issued a citation also.
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Left hand turning driver is at fault. A yellow means ALL vehicles must exercise CAUTION. The straight through vehicle is NOT required to stop, and permit the other vehicle to turn left. Had it been a red light then technically BOTH drivers would be ticketed, Left turner for improper left turn, other one for fail to stop.
 
statsman said:
Doesn't matter. You can't turn left until the way is clear.
The driver going through the red still has the right-of-way and you have to wait.
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Actually, the respective driving conducts of both drivers do matter. If the driving conduct of the person going straight through is sufficiently extreme that the left-turn driver could not reasonably foresee the possibility of collision, then there would likely be no charges issued against that left turner if a crash results.

Case in point, a motorcycle travelling at double the speed limit approaching a left-turning SUV, and the resultant collision which put the SUV on its side and the rider inside the SUV. Had the SUV driver survived, do you really think he would have been charged? Even Ontario's collision Fault Determination Rules for insurance purposes leaves an out for such circumstances.
 
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Left turner isn't supposed to enter the intersection until the turn can be made safely.
 
statsman said:
griff2 said:
Unless the straight

Doesn't matter. You can't turn left until the way is clear.
The driver going through the red still has the right-of-way and you have to wait.
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Please feel free to post the HTA section that refers to a red light runner being granted right of way.

The left hand turning vehicle, (as long as it had entered the intersection legally, (say on a amber traffic light), in that scenario has the right of way as the other vehicle has no right to enter the intersection, (when facing a red traffic signal you are NOT permitted to enter the intersection, while proceeding either left or straight thru), period.
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hedo2002 said:
...The left hand turning vehicle, (as long as it had entered the intersection legally, (say on a amber traffic light), in that scenario has the right of way as the other vehicle has no right to enter the intersection, (when facing a red traffic signal you are NOT permitted to enter the intersection, while proceeding either left or straight thru), period.
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True, but proving it is often difficult when the driver going through the intersection says that s/he had an amber and not a red. Unless you can prove otherwise, like you have a camera or witnesses, the driver making the left will be charged.

As for Ontario insurance fault determination rules:

Ontario Fault Determination Rules said:
15. (1) This section applies with respect to an incident that occurs at an intersection with traffic signals. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 15 (1).

(2) If the driver of automobile “B” fails to obey a traffic signal, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 15 (2).
(3) If it cannot be established whether the driver of either automobile failed to obey a traffic signal, the driver of each automobile shall be deemed to be 50 per cent at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 15 (3).
(4) If the traffic signals at the intersection are inoperative, the degree of fault of the drivers shall be determined as if the intersection were an all-way stop intersection. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 15 (4).
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The Ontario insurance fault determination rules are a little unclear.
 
griff2 said:
Actually, the respective driving conducts of both drivers do matter. If the driving conduct of the person going straight through is sufficiently extreme that the left-turn driver could not reasonably foresee the possibility of collision, then there would likely be no charges issued against that left turner if a crash results.

Case in point, a motorcycle travelling at double the speed limit approaching a left-turning SUV, and the resultant collision which put the SUV on its side and the rider inside the SUV. Had the SUV driver survived, do you really think he would have been charged? Even Ontario's collision Fault Determination Rules for insurance purposes leaves an out for such circumstances.
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Bad example. When one vehicle rear ends the other, the vehicle which hits the other in the back is always at fault.
Either careless driving or following too closely.

This entire question can be responded to very simply.
If you are trying to make a left on an amber and the vehicle coming towards you speeds up do you honestly think you can make the turn safely with the other vehicle bearing down on you?
Is there anything in your common sense that tells you this is a safe thing to do?
That's what 90% of the HTA is, common sense.
The fact the government has to spell all these things out in a statute speaks volumes about the drivers, not the government.
 
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Amber light

(15) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular amber indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle if he or she can do so safely, otherwise he or she may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (15).AMBER LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP. HTA 144(15)

I'd charge both, and probably also ding the left-turner with an additional charge related to HTA 141(5). The most at fault likely is the left turner, because they have the extra burden of safely making the left.
 
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hedo2002 said:
statsman said:
Please feel free to post the HTA section that refers to a red light runner being granted right of way.

The left hand turning vehicle, (as long as it had entered the intersection legally, (say on a amber traffic light), in that scenario has the right of way as the other vehicle has no right to enter the intersection, (when facing a red traffic signal you are NOT permitted to enter the intersection, while proceeding either left or straight thru), period.
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[h=4]Left turn, across path of approaching vehicle[/h] (5) No driver or operator of a vehicle in an intersection shall turn left across the path of a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction unless he or she has afforded a reasonable opportunity to the driver or operator of the approaching vehicle to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (5).
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