Kawasaki Canada released this morning that they would disappointingly
be downsizing their racing...
be downsizing their racing...
Read more at TrackdayHub.com
Click on the "News" link
|
|
|
Kawasaki downsizing, Szoke??
- Thread starter Supertaff
- Start date
Read more at TrackdayHub.com
Click on the "News" link
He was a privateer on a Honda, for 2010. For 2011 he was back on a Kawi superbike.
gotcha. CSBK (well, most racing in general) fell off my radar this season.
....... A very long time is my guess....... :-( there is no money in this country for motorcycle racing, British "house league" Darts gets better "TV" time. There will allways be some form of motorcycle racing (as long as they make motorcycles, that is......) its how the National series is going to look, they will now have to take a long seriouse look at thier future, Kawasaki was one of the true mainstays in Canadian racing (and by far the most successful) and if they are out you can almost bet forsure so is everybody else. BMW has their championship they can move on .......
Honda's out, Yamaha/Suzuki are in real trouble, Ducati has ZERO interest in North American racing (funny its their biggest market....) ...... BUT, on the semi bright side, ASM is supposed to return to Quebec (ICAR, St Moustach, and ????), SOAR has a couple of very useable tracks (TMP and Grand Bend), and RACE S'ville ..... well, they might be in big trouble. sooooo, racing might be OK at the regional level, just don't bet to heavily on the National Series being that big a deal........ BG
Honda's out, Yamaha/Suzuki are in real trouble, Ducati has ZERO interest in North American racing (funny its their biggest market....) ...... BUT, on the semi bright side, ASM is supposed to return to Quebec (ICAR, St Moustach, and ????), SOAR has a couple of very useable tracks (TMP and Grand Bend), and RACE S'ville ..... well, they might be in big trouble. sooooo, racing might be OK at the regional level, just don't bet to heavily on the National Series being that big a deal........ BG
TLDeano
Well-known member
If there was more advertizing for the Nationals maybe more ppl would see that theres actually a Professinal series in Canada.
The majority of the general population doesnt know the name Jordan Szoke.
So what big companies would throw big money and their name on a bike when most of the general population wont hear or see it...??,,, Thats why theres no money in it. The series organizers and advertizing ppl are failing.
The majority of the general population doesnt know the name Jordan Szoke.
So what big companies would throw big money and their name on a bike when most of the general population wont hear or see it...??,,, Thats why theres no money in it. The series organizers and advertizing ppl are failing.
Jia
Well-known member
CSBK is all good to go for next year (according to them) and they are even trying to secure a round at Mount Tremblont. BMW is still running factory bikes I think.
Szoke was quoted saying he'll still be racing one way or another in 2012.
Real question is, why is there a Honda CBR250 cup class...? A MD250H GP Mono class would be amazing and a big step forward but CBR250....
Szoke was quoted saying he'll still be racing one way or another in 2012.
Real question is, why is there a Honda CBR250 cup class...? A MD250H GP Mono class would be amazing and a big step forward but CBR250....
Last edited:
The rreason there is a CBR cup is becasue that's where next batch of Szokes and McCormicks will come from. Many top tier pro and amateur riders today, came from the CBR125 cups......It's a great, and AFFORDABLE way to open the door to racing....and the small bikes teah riders fundamentals of corner speed. If you can win on a bike with such little power, it can only help you win on anything else.
...>And it's also a matter of winning on Sunday, and selling on Monday. Honda, can and will sell more CBR's by promoting this class of racing.
Jia
Well-known member
I'm not convinced Honda Canada truely believes a spec make class (where they don't beat any other manufactures) in a series that gets next to no public exposure is in it for the Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday.
I fully understand the reason for feeder classes. The MD250H they cost around $11,699 USD. Yes it's about double a CBR but it's a pure bred race bike and the USGPRU also have a $142,000 contingency program. If you race a MD250H in USGPRU and win, you make $2000 (that's just series payout), if you place 6th, you make $1000. How much do you think the CBR250 payout will be? Do you honestly think racing CBR250's will breed and teach how to ride GP bikes (better than a GP Mono/Moto3)?
If there is a clear and substantial reward, it makes racing that much more worthwhile (many discussion on lack of payouts in Canada hence why we have diminishing grids). Sure, CBR is initially cheap, but hey, we know racing aint cheap to begin with, and if there are substantial contigencies, than we all know in the long run it gives us hope, makes it all worthwhile, and maybe can balance costs (assuming the kid is competitive). And if I had a son, and I believed he could race with the best of them, and I'm going to invest so much money in him, what is an extra $6 grand to be using what all the Europeans (and Americans) are using? My kid simply won't have the latest Apple product going into Grade 4, or the hippest Nike shoes (who cares). I'd want him to race on the machines the rest of the racing world is using in their feeder class, the GP Mono bikes. Honda could have lease programs or something what Harley did with the XR1200's. If people do buy them, then it starts a flourishing cycle where used GP Mono bikes will be availabe for sale for the next wave of youngans, making it even more affordable. Everything has to start somewhere. Not to mention it will be a direct link to Moto3. I could literally sit down with my kid and watch countless hours of future Terols'/Vinales'/Zarcos' on their Moto3 bikes and learn how they ride/take lines. Just hypothetically speaking (I don't have a kid! haha).
I'm for feeder classes, just not the bike they chose to use. I'm sure there are financial reasons. I'm just up for discussions, food for thought. If Honda Canada is going to support the class, why not do it the right (I use that term loosely) way.
Last edited:
At the National level the CBR contingency payouts are very good. You can also ride one of those CBRs into a wall and fix it for a few hundred dollars. I doubt the same could be said for the MD. The only complaint i have about the CBR Cup is that they're a little slow for spectating but with the jump from 125 to 250 I think it'll be a lot more exciting.
Increasing the costs of the "springboard class" will not do anything to bring more people into racing. I think the CBR Cup is an excellent tool for getting the new/younger racers some race experience under their belts without having them barreling into Turn 2 @ Mosport 3-wide on GP Bikes WFO. If you really wanted to introduce the MD into Canadian racing i would suggest it has a place between the CBR Cup and the AM600/SBK class. Similar to what the SV Cup used to be. That being said, I'm not sure how well a 3rd spec class would do in the series.. probably not well.
Increasing the costs of the "springboard class" will not do anything to bring more people into racing. I think the CBR Cup is an excellent tool for getting the new/younger racers some race experience under their belts without having them barreling into Turn 2 @ Mosport 3-wide on GP Bikes WFO. If you really wanted to introduce the MD into Canadian racing i would suggest it has a place between the CBR Cup and the AM600/SBK class. Similar to what the SV Cup used to be. That being said, I'm not sure how well a 3rd spec class would do in the series.. probably not well.
Tonto
Well-known member
I'll try to dispel some myths about this Spec 125 Racing thing. I only say this because I've had a kid racing 125GP bikes in Canada and the US for years now. He's raced with the likes of Peter Lenz, Xavier Zayat, Tyler Butts. If you know GP racing, you know the names. From all I've seen, the successful CBR Cup racers, and I mean the real fast guys have all gone into that class not to learn to ride/ race, but for the exposure, nothing less. Steven Nickerson was a hellova fast 125GP racer (RedBull material) way before he ever swung a leg over a CBR125. Any racer that has ridden a GP bike will tell you that a CBR125 will do very little to prepare you for competitive racing at the higher levels. Remember, the bike is really nothing more than an inner city commuting bike with a nice paint job. It in no way handles/ reacts like a race bike and in fact is counter-productive to learning about how race bikes work. The chasis and front end act like wet noddles in corners, and the tires they're shod in are absolute crap. It does give the rider a glimpse of how things are in the 'big leagues' though and it is a lot of fun for a kid.
The Moriwaki Class down south is a good proving ground for the riders as the 4-strokes are actually put in GP chassis- now that makes for good racing and good training. If any series, whether it be Regional or National could support a class of Moriwaki's- 10 or more, I'd have two in our fleet tomorrow. You can pick up a race-ready package in the US right now for under $10K. That will be how the newest Zoke's and Christie's are produced, not with a CBR125, or CBR250 class.
Believe me, it frustrates me that more kids are not entering the sport- we have to travel ten or so hours South to find any competition at the 125GP level.
Holy crap I just gaged on my toast! Uhmmm,,Honda Canada support a feeder class? Honda Canada is only supporting the CBR class becasue it's a cheap back door to staying in the national. Not to mention they sell every CBR they bring into Canada. As does Kawasaki with the 250.
That being said,, the CBR belongs on a go cart track like out in Calgary where they have 200 plus kids and parents in their mini roadracing class.
You can not tell me a CBR 125 cass at Mosport where they use 6th gear everywhere,pinned and no brakes but have to shift to fifth gear up the back straight is teaching anybody anything. Not to mention you can"t even change gearing!
The financial point is mute! When I ran the Can-Am 125 GP series,, we had 40 to 50 bikes on grids. We had riders from Colorado,Calgary and Bermuda. We had top quality equipment,even Aprilia's that podiumed at Moto GP races. The average cost of a bike was about $7,000-$10,000 with spares. The good stuff was probably closer to $15,000 to $20,000. There was no shortage of it. The racing was awsome and riders like Alex Welsh,Taylor Knapp,Peris,Reidmann,McCormick,Nobi, and many more road in the series. The Can-Am helped start the USGPRU.YEs I had an open invitation to ANY CCS/F-USA event. So we asked the USGPRU to come along.
So riding a bike that is not relavant to the track is pointless. CBR's are great for what they are doing but the industry has the cart about 60 K ahead of the horse. Where do you go after the 125? So if you don"t have a step after the 125 it's pointless! So how many parents and kids have lost interest and left the sport becasue they have no idea how or if they can run a 600?
So your points are of value,, but if the industry can squash a series like the Can-Am that produced tons of riders that could step onto a 600,not to mention paid huge purses with all outside industry funding, do you actually think they even care about some Moriwaki 250? They want the future but none of them,, except Yamaha and PMP supported the Can-AM. Oh and by the way,, I had a Moriwaki race sheduled here but Honda Canada would not tell Honda USA it was okay to bring it here.
So ,, now after we slam our heads in the car door to get some gratification,, what should we do?
Last edited by a moderator:
The reality is we don"t need much to do something right. [i finished slamming my head in the door] If you promoted the CBR 125 as a regional level class across Canada. Then Kawasaki and HOnda supported a 250 class regionally and Nationally. You would develope a ton of riders that could stay in the sport for 4 years.
1-2 years on the CBR and 2 to 3 on the 250's. Then we develope a step from 250 to 600's. whether it be the 400 class bikes or the Moriwaki series.
The bottom line is this has to be done with the goal of developing the future. As with the Can-Am riders I had that day they were the future 5 years from then.
Currently the entire sport is concerned about right now. These are all serious issues but we can"t ignore the future.
The problem with the Can-Am was that Honda,Yamaha or Aprilia did not sell the GP bikes in Canada. So they did not really care [except Yamaha] Yamaha did help simply becasue the people involved at Yamaha at the time respected what we were doing. It was simply a good will gesture. Which is what we needed!
So until the powers to be in Canada see the value of working today for tomorrow it's a tough road. As well, in their defence, they need to fix today for a tomorrow. So ,,not sure what the answer is.
1-2 years on the CBR and 2 to 3 on the 250's. Then we develope a step from 250 to 600's. whether it be the 400 class bikes or the Moriwaki series.
The bottom line is this has to be done with the goal of developing the future. As with the Can-Am riders I had that day they were the future 5 years from then.
Currently the entire sport is concerned about right now. These are all serious issues but we can"t ignore the future.
The problem with the Can-Am was that Honda,Yamaha or Aprilia did not sell the GP bikes in Canada. So they did not really care [except Yamaha] Yamaha did help simply becasue the people involved at Yamaha at the time respected what we were doing. It was simply a good will gesture. Which is what we needed!
So until the powers to be in Canada see the value of working today for tomorrow it's a tough road. As well, in their defence, they need to fix today for a tomorrow. So ,,not sure what the answer is.
Jia
Well-known member
Tonto and John, thank you for your insight/confirmation. This is information that more people need to know. People dont' even know what a GP Mono bike is here or what USGPRU is, which is clear just by looking at some of the replies I got in this thread. People here seem short sighted, CBR upfront cost vs. a MD is like comparing apples to oranges as the bikes are made for a different purpose. This is an issues because people will genuinely think Honda Canada is supporting the series, and that CBR250's are actually good bike to learn racing technique on (considering alternatives). I didnt' buy it, hence my initial question.
I've been in the sport for just a year and I am too young to have seen the downhill spiral the sport has taken in Canada so I was curious what has happened and also why our "feeder class" uses the bikes they use (after I read recently Honda Canada was to "support" a CBR250 class, it didn't make sense to me). I had no knowledge of Can-Am (thanks for info John). As you said Tonto, if we had a MD class here you'd buy two right away, that tells me already it's what should be (having a GP Mono class). If I had a kid and there was a class, I'd also buy them right away. I'm resigned to hear that it doesn't make sense not only to me, but now I know why. It must be even more frustrating for the parents (who know what's what) who want to put their kids racing. But as you said John, they need to fix today for tomorow so there the solution is not so clear.
I've been in the sport for just a year and I am too young to have seen the downhill spiral the sport has taken in Canada so I was curious what has happened and also why our "feeder class" uses the bikes they use (after I read recently Honda Canada was to "support" a CBR250 class, it didn't make sense to me). I had no knowledge of Can-Am (thanks for info John). As you said Tonto, if we had a MD class here you'd buy two right away, that tells me already it's what should be (having a GP Mono class). If I had a kid and there was a class, I'd also buy them right away. I'm resigned to hear that it doesn't make sense not only to me, but now I know why. It must be even more frustrating for the parents (who know what's what) who want to put their kids racing. But as you said John, they need to fix today for tomorow so there the solution is not so clear.
Last edited:
And let me tell you, you certainly missed some great history by not being around for John's Can-Am series. Having 35 little 125cc hornets buzzing into corner two, at Mosport, was an awe inspiring sight. Most of the lead pack, of about 10 riders, went on to bigger and better things. John mentioned a few of those names. And I sure miss seeing all of those Americans around the track, for the Mosport round, and the feelings of camaraderie that series bred.
There was even that "in between" series, that he mentioned; SV Cup. Guess who was instrumental in getting that going, too.
Motorcycle sales in Canada are down over $300 million dollars in the last 4+ years, with another decrease expected for 2011. Until new unit sales improve and the OEM dealer network stabilizes, racing in Canada at a Factory supported level will not be a priority. Kawasaki brought out this new ZX10R to a whole pile of fanfare and I'd estimate they've sold less than 60 total units across Canada. BMW is the best selling litre bike in Canada right now, and they've used racing to showcase it. BMW can justify the cost of racing as they are trying to bring attention to their new sport bike and attract an entirely new customer into the dealership. None of the other OEM's can sell a litre bike to save their life and many 600 sport bikes are not selling any better.
The best thing you can do is encourage your friends and family to ride a motorcycle. Street, track, whatever, just make sure the torch is passed along. It also helps to buy bikes through the proper channels(Canada) so that your sales are documented and the dollars stay in Canada. With the way things are going, don't be surprised if there is no Yamaha Canada or Kawasaki Canada in the near future. Sales are dropping like a stone,so you may see many Canadian OEM offices shuttered and sales directed out of the US for all of North America. Don't quote me on it, but it seems logical given the state of our industry.
The best thing you can do is encourage your friends and family to ride a motorcycle. Street, track, whatever, just make sure the torch is passed along. It also helps to buy bikes through the proper channels(Canada) so that your sales are documented and the dollars stay in Canada. With the way things are going, don't be surprised if there is no Yamaha Canada or Kawasaki Canada in the near future. Sales are dropping like a stone,so you may see many Canadian OEM offices shuttered and sales directed out of the US for all of North America. Don't quote me on it, but it seems logical given the state of our industry.
fixing the pricing to be closer to the USA price would help. Isn't the BMW better in that regard?
Well,
Fact is that more people from Canada probably watched Brett McCormick,Kenny Reidmann and Ben Young two weeks ago in the AMA then the entire spectator draw for the whole year in Canada CSBK.
Canada would make a huge step forward if they instituted graduated licensing like Europe. You can bet it would soon hit the US. The OEM say it costs the same to bring in a 250 as a 400 or a 600. But there are really cool small bikes out there. The cool factor would go up even more if that was all you could ride at 16 was 125!
As far as racing. Racing would attract a whole new spectator crowd.
It's a simple fact the Canadian market is very small. DO the factories spend money developing a new market with the 400's etc? Or do they focus on what they know and can sell. If the government mandated graduated licensing it would fix a lot.
But again that would be a "tomorrow" fix.
You have to ask,, if the industry income is so low why did they pay stupid salariess several years back for Canadian Superbike riders like Picotte,Crevier and Szoke?
One has to agree if the industry income is so low,,why spend the wages? Now they say they have no money! Would it not make sense to spend a fixed amount each year relavant to sales and support the entire sport? But for several years the Factories spent huge money and the return was never there. Now their broke.The result is nobody gets anything.
So until we get some logic and common sense it's broke!
But it will get fixed,, or bandaided and we'll see some improvements,,,,,the question is then what?
Fact is that more people from Canada probably watched Brett McCormick,Kenny Reidmann and Ben Young two weeks ago in the AMA then the entire spectator draw for the whole year in Canada CSBK.
Canada would make a huge step forward if they instituted graduated licensing like Europe. You can bet it would soon hit the US. The OEM say it costs the same to bring in a 250 as a 400 or a 600. But there are really cool small bikes out there. The cool factor would go up even more if that was all you could ride at 16 was 125!
As far as racing. Racing would attract a whole new spectator crowd.
It's a simple fact the Canadian market is very small. DO the factories spend money developing a new market with the 400's etc? Or do they focus on what they know and can sell. If the government mandated graduated licensing it would fix a lot.
But again that would be a "tomorrow" fix.
You have to ask,, if the industry income is so low why did they pay stupid salariess several years back for Canadian Superbike riders like Picotte,Crevier and Szoke?
One has to agree if the industry income is so low,,why spend the wages? Now they say they have no money! Would it not make sense to spend a fixed amount each year relavant to sales and support the entire sport? But for several years the Factories spent huge money and the return was never there. Now their broke.The result is nobody gets anything.
So until we get some logic and common sense it's broke!
But it will get fixed,, or bandaided and we'll see some improvements,,,,,the question is then what?
|
|
|
|
|