In the upcoming Provincial election.....

Rob MacLennan

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... if you find yourself with no clear candidate to support, don't. You have another option, in Ontario. Vote "none of the above." You do this by accepting your ballot, then returning it and stating that you wish to decline your vote. I also encourage everyone who feels that their vote is meaningless, to do the same. It's a vote of protest and is actually registered as a declined ballot, rather than as a spoilt one.

Send a message. I'd love to see even just 10% of the electorate, who feel completely disaffected, have their voices heard.
 
... if you find yourself with no clear candidate to support, don't. You have another option, in Ontario. Vote "none of the above." You do this by accepting your ballot, then returning it and stating that you wish to decline your vote. I also encourage everyone who feels that their vote is meaningless, to do the same. It's a vote of protest and is actually registered as a declined ballot, rather than as a spoilt one.

Send a message. I'd love to see even just 10% of the electorate, who feel completely disaffected, have their voices heard.

did not know that I could do that. Thanks! Now I have a reason to go vote!
 
The political system will never change if you try this approach and register your "non" vote. Whomever wins doesn't care one bit that you are disenfranchised with the system. They won... bwahahahahaha! (and you did NOTHING to stop them!)

A better approach might be to pick a party with which you agree with most of their policies and get to work. Volunteer at the campaign office, pound the streets canvassing, whatever! Get involved! Someday, the change you wanted might just happen. Along the way, whether your candidate wins or loses, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you tried your best to work in a positive way toward making our country a better place.

Doing what you are proposing is much like acting like a spoiled child - pouting because you didn't get your way. Boohoo.
 
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The political system will never change if you try this approach and register your "non" vote. Whomever wins doesn't care one bit that you are disenfranchised with the system. They won... bwahahahahaha! (and you did NOTHING to stop them!). Doing what you are proposing is much like acting like a spoiled child - pouting because you didn't get your way. Boohoo.


Or the guy or gal who lost by 8% thinks long and hard about how he could represent those 10% that felt let down enough to step away from the TV and go decline their ballot, and how he could get his retooled message out to them.
 
The political system will never change if you try this approach and register your "non" vote. Whomever wins doesn't care one bit that you are disenfranchised with the system. They won... bwahahahahaha! (and you did NOTHING to stop them!)

A better approach might be to pick a party with which you agree with most of their policies and get to work. Volunteer at the campaign office, pound the streets canvassing, whatever! Get involved! Someday, the change you wanted might just happen. Along the way, whether your candidate wins or loses, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you tried your best to work in a positive way toward making our country a better place.

Doing what you are proposing is much like acting like a spoiled child - pouting because you didn't get your way. Boohoo.

Not really. You are actively trying to make it clear to politicians that they don't have a mandate from the general public. This isn't spoiling a ballot, this is registering the fact for the record...that you believe no politician is worthy of your vote.
 
I've done this before...I really wish you could do this for a Federal election though.

Elections Canada made it one of their recommended changes to the Elections Act, a little over 10 years ago. It never happened.

The political system will never change if you try this approach and register your "non" vote. Whomever wins doesn't care one bit that you are disenfranchised with the system. They won... bwahahahahaha! (and you did NOTHING to stop them!)

A better approach might be to pick a party with which you agree with most of their policies and get to work. Volunteer at the campaign office, pound the streets canvassing, whatever! Get involved! Someday, the change you wanted might just happen. Along the way, whether your candidate wins or loses, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you tried your best to work in a positive way toward making our country a better place.

Doing what you are proposing is much like acting like a spoiled child - pouting because you didn't get your way. Boohoo.

That approach is what has gotten ourselves, and the Americans for that matter, into a situation in which severe polarization is used to cull voters.

In 2007 Dalton McGuinty's Liberals won a "majority" of roughly 42%, with a total eligible voter turnout of less than 53%. That means around 22% of eligible voters gave him his mandate. Do you not think that if as little as 10% of eligible voters said that no party represented them, someone would try to get those votes?
 
Quick question...what happens in the unlikely event that the majority of voters decline their vote?
 
Same thing that's already happening; which is less than the majority of voters choose our government.

Yup, but we might get lucky and have a message sent.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do, as of yet. McGuinty has got to go. I'm a fiscal conservative but Hudak hasn't really done anything but toss out bad ideas, and buzz-words. I'll vote NDP the moment that someone performs an ice-pick lobotomy on me.
 
Same thing that's already happening; which is less than the majority of voters choose our government.

I'm not gonna cry about that one because it works that way across the board, regardless of who wins. The Conservatives won their federal majority without actually having a majority vote. That tends to happen when there are more than 2 parties competing for top spot.

What sends a message is a change in votes. If we elect McGuinty again, we're basically telling the government that we don't care where our money goes and who rapes and pillages our bank accounts, because we'll keep electing them again and again.
 
That approach is what has gotten ourselves, and the Americans for that matter, into a situation in which severe polarization is used to cull voters.

Not sure what you mean by the statement "polarization is used to cull voters." The political strategists have deliberately polarized politics to the point where there is great animosity among the electorate and amongst the politicians themselves. Political policies have become less caring as well - we are turning into a nation like the US where we are increasingly not seeing ourselves as our brother's keeper. It is very sad, and we, the citizens have allowed the political machine to get away with this. When Canadians don't stand up and speak out (at very least by voting), I fear this trend will continue - the middle class will shrink, the poor will increase dramatically in number and the well-to-do will laugh all the way to the bank.

In 2007 Dalton McGuinty's Liberals won a "majority" of roughly 42%, with a total eligible voter turnout of less than 53%. That means around 22% of eligible voters gave him his mandate. Do you not think that if as little as 10% of eligible voters said that no party represented them, someone would try to get those votes?

No political system is perfect. But, to paraphrase the late Jack Layton, you don't wait until conditions are right before doing something, you go out and make the best with what you are given. I think the idea of registering a non-vote is just as bad as not voting. There is enough variety of opinion and policy in the political parties that there has to be a few issues that people can agree with in each party platform. No one party is going to ideally represent all of one individual's interests. So, I guess the answer to your question is.... yes, someone will be interested in getting these votes along with getting the votes of all those who wouldnt get off their lazy butts, get acquainted with the issues, and get out and vote. Ultimately, the only way to change things is to get involved. The people who do not get involved (ie: at least learn the issues and get out and vote) are destined to be dictated to by those in power.
 
My dad used to campaign for a political party YEARS ago. When the people he spoke with told them that there were no good candidates, or that they wouldn't vote, he'd emplore them to do this (blank ballot).I've done it on a few occasions when I wasn't happy with any particular candidate, all the while increasing the voting percentage of my riding, age, sex, etc.
 
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Yup, but we might get lucky and have a message sent.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do, as of yet. McGuinty has got to go. I'm a fiscal conservative but Hudak hasn't really done anything but toss out bad ideas, and buzz-words. I'll vote NDP the moment that someone performs an ice-pick lobotomy on me.

McGuinty has got to go? What would you have done differently? Does being a fiscal conservative mean that you agree with their policies of disproportionately huge tax cuts for the wealthy while all the rest of society sinks? Do you agree with the policies of selling off public assets to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy (ie: selling off Hwy 407 - now we are paying triple the tolls than we would have otherwise.) Even Warren Buffett thinks that the taxation policies of the US are way out of whack and the wealthy should be paying MORE, not less. Canadian tax policies are on track to become like those of the US with the Conservatives in power federally.


What sends a message is a change in votes. If we elect McGuinty again, we're basically telling the government that we don't care where our money goes and who rapes and pillages our bank accounts, because we'll keep electing them again and again.

I'm gonna ask again.... who could have done better? They were handed an economy in turmoil, then the recession hit. There are no political parties that would have come out smelling like roses during this term. Classical economic theory states that it is the government's job to smooth the economic ups and downs by spending. When times are tough, spend more to ease the pain to the citizens. When times are good, save more so you have the $$ to spend on the downturns. When the government spends money it has much more effect on the economy than if individuals spend the same dollar amount (there is a multiplier effect.) The part where this broke down is that the government didn't save when times were good and then they had to run deficits when times were bad. It doesnt matter which party is in power - WE owe that money, and WE have to pay it back - where is the money going to come from? It has to come from taxes (either from increased economic activity or increased taxation) - there is no other way. Anyone who thinks that a government can get into power today, bring in tax cuts, and hope the economy gets better is living a pipe dream.

Interesting to note - Canada, under the leadership of Prime Minister Harper was about to deregulate the Canadian banks just like the Americans did. Luckily, they did not succeed, or Canada would most likely be in a worse mess than the US is now. Now they sit there and smugly state that Canada weathered the storm better under their fiscally conservative leadership. What hogwash.
 
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Not sure what you mean by the statement "polarization is used to cull voters." The political strategists have deliberately polarized politics to the point where there is great animosity among the electorate and amongst the politicians themselves. Political policies have become less caring as well - we are turning into a nation like the US where we are increasingly not seeing ourselves as our brother's keeper. It is very sad, and we, the citizens have allowed the political machine to get away with this. When Canadians don't stand up and speak out (at very least by voting), I fear this trend will continue - the middle class will shrink, the poor will increase dramatically in number and the well-to-do will laugh all the way to the bank.

What I mean is that it sometimes seems to me strategists are deliberately disaffecting voters, by taking more and more polarized positions, meaning that only the people on the extremes ultimately end up electing the government. They play to an ever narrowing audience, as is shown by the abysmal numbers in the last Provincial election.

No political system is perfect. But, to paraphrase the late Jack Layton, you don't wait until conditions are right before doing something, you go out and make the best with what you are given. I think the idea of registering a non-vote is just as bad as not voting. There is enough variety of opinion and policy in the political parties that there has to be a few issues that people can agree with in each party platform. No one party is going to ideally represent all of one individual's interests. So, I guess the answer to your question is.... yes, someone will be interested in getting these votes along with getting the votes of all those who wouldnt get off their lazy butts, get acquainted with the issues, and get out and vote. Ultimately, the only way to change things is to get involved. The people who do not get involved (ie: at least learn the issues and get out and vote) are destined to be dictated to by those in power.

Taking the short term view hasn't served anyone very well. We need to take a longer view. My statement is that you don't need to get out and vote for someone, in order to have an effect on the process. If you're really going to "get involved" then you'd better actually join a party, and steer it the way that you want it to go. Anything less, in the short term, is pointless.

My dad used to campaign for a political party YEARS ago. When the people he spoke with told them that there were no goo candidates, or that they wouldn't vote, he'd emplore them to do this (blank ballot).I've done it on a few occasions when I wasn't happy with any particular candidate, all the while increasing the voting percentage of my riding, age, sex, etc.

A blank ballot shows nothing. It's a spoilt ballot and does little to send a message to politicians, unless the desired message is that people are too dumb to correctly mark a ballot. Declining your ballot is recorded as such.
 
McGuinty has got to go? What would you have done differently? Does being a fiscal conservative mean that you agree with their policies of disproportionately huge tax cuts for the wealthy while all the rest of society sinks? Do you agree with the policies of selling off public assets to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy (ie: selling off Hwy 407 - now we are paying triple the tolls than we would have otherwise.) Even Warren Buffett thinks that the taxation policies of the US are way out of whack and the wealthy should be paying MORE, not less. Canadian tax policies are on track to become like those of the US with the Conservatives in power federally.

First thing, that I would have done, is I'd have failed to lie. Repeatedly. The second thing is I wouldn't have spent all of the money that we did have, that certainly could have been put to better use once things started to fall apart. Buying votes is less important than financial solvency.

I hope that you're being facetious, because otherwise your comments are grossly insulting.

Being a fiscal conservative isn't a political affiliation, it's a way of viewing disbursement of funds. To put it in the most simple, personal terms you don't buy a new TV if the old one works fine, and you can't afford food. You don't just throw money at a problem, hoping that it'll fix it. You monitor how the funds are used and make sure that they aren't being wasted. At this point Canada does not have a fiscally conservative party. It has three spendthrift parties, one of which just happens to be socially conservative. Don't mistake one for the other. Social conservatives expand prisons and push for harsher sentencing, which increases spending in ways that are unnecessary. Fiscal conservatives look at things like needle exchanges realizing that just two or three people, who don't become infected with AIDS, pay for the entire programme in saved health care costs.

You tax those who can best bear the load. Look at the tax rates from back in the 1950s. Somehow the rich still managed to be rich, back then, despite paying multiples of their current percentages.

As Canadians we have a commitment to state funded education, universal health care, and a basic social safety net. When people become comfortable enough in that safety net that they see no need to go back to work, despite being healthy and capable, then that safety net has bloated beyond reason. It needs to be properly monitored and those who abuse it, need to be punished for it. I favour "Workfare" over "Welfare", where it's practical in application. No one in Canada should starve. No one in Canada should get a free ride either.

Fiscal conservatism is about APPROPRIATE spending.
 
A blank ballot shows nothing. It's a spoilt ballot and does little to send a message to politicians, unless the desired message is that people are too dumb to correctly mark a ballot. Declining your ballot is recorded as such.
I was told that a blank ballot is registered as a declined ballot, while one that is improperly marked is considered spoiled.
 
I was told that a blank ballot is registered as a declined ballot, while one that is improperly marked is considered spoiled.

That's not true. A blank ballot is a spoilt ballot also. There is a procedure for declining your ballot.

"1. DECLINED – a ballot handed back to the DRO by an elector who declines to vote and so states. When the elector declines to vote, the DRO will write “declined” on the back of the ballot."
 

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