How much does wheelbase affect handling? - And other liter bike discussion

42Seb

42Seb

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So I noticed the R1 is only 20lbs more than the R6; a fairly small difference that can be compensated for with some weight saving mods.
Now, my question is, why does the R6 feel so much more light/flickable than the R1? The wheelbase difference doesn't seem to be that big either, but perhaps a small change here can make a huge difference. Regardless, you can probably alter that as well by the chain adjusters. Is the weight distribution setup differently?
 
Height of centre of mass, moment of inertia and geometry could all play a large factor in how a bike feels. My guess is moment of inertia isn't much different between the two bikes. Geometry would make the biggest difference and that is reasonably easy to find stats on. My guess is the 1K has a slacker head angle to calm things down a bit.

EDIT:
Your brought up wheelbase, but that probably has very little effect on how light and flickable a bike is (assuming the rest of the geometry was unchanged). Longer wheelbase will stabilize the bike in the wheelie/stoppie axis but do little to the leaning axis.
 
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Rotating mass also has a gyroscopic effect, bigger motors are a bit harder to push over and pull back. .
 
As Mad Mike stated, the bigger motor has a more substantial gyroscopic effect. Also if you're talking about a 09+ R1 which uses a crossplane crankshaft, then the engine is actually heavier than its inline predecessor used in earlier models. Add bigger wheels/tires and finally setup. You gotta look at wheelbase, rake, trail etc.
 
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+1 to the two guys mentioning gyroscopic effect. Easy to feel the difference with dirt bikes that use the same chassis between 250 and 450’s.
 
:unsure: Could it be that it has more nanny features?
"The R1 comes standard with an advanced electronics suite; traction control, slide control, ABS/unified braking system, launch control, wheel lift control, and quick-shifter—the latter two were revised for 2018."
 
blackcamaro said:
+1 to the two guys mentioning gyroscopic effect. Easy to feel the difference with dirt bikes that use the same chassis between 250 and 450’s.
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My vote is for the gyroscopic force of the engine as well. Nearly every MotoGP team has switched to a reverse crank to improve cornering. It is supposed to be a feature on the next gen R1 whenever that gets announced.
 
r3r3r3 said:
My vote is for the gyroscopic force of the engine as well. Nearly every MotoGP team has switched to a reverse crank to improve cornering. It is supposed to be a feature on the next gen R1 whenever that gets announced.
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My F3 features the reverse crank, she really launches on take-off which is where I notice it to feel different in a good way, but I'm not so certain it has much to do with "light/flickable" Not saying you are wrong either because my bike is light and corners sweet, just can't say that is the result of a counter-rotating crankshaft.
... and I have to confess I detest the term "flickable", seeing as I've even heard that term used to describe a Harley-Davidson.
 
Thanks to all for the super helpful responses; it really helped put things into perspective! The reverse crank sounds really neat, I've also heard about a seamless transmissions making it's way into the R1 which would be pretty damn cool
 
The Panigale V4 has reverse crank rotation...but then, so did a 1987 Kawasaki EX500...
 
My 1986 BMW does too, but they turned the entire engine lengthwise too, so I guess both my street bikes are actually backwards spinning in a sideways kinda way. ... the BMW is absolutely Not "flickable" but the reverse spin definitely helps with cornering when you have a longitudinal engine.
 
Sebi said:
I've also heard about a seamless transmissions making it's way into the R1 which would be pretty damn cool
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Indeed, what I want to know is how they will make it practical. To have a system like that in a mass produced bike will be a challenge, cost-wise and technically as well; If anyone can do it, Yamaha can.
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