Home Addition - Structural Engineer?

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mimico_polak

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Hey all,

Well with the house pricing the way it is right now looks like I won't be buying anything soon in the area so we're thinking of adding another level to the existing structure for more space.

It's an older (50's) building in South Etobicoke and there's a few houses in the area that are taller already, and the building permits seem to be allowing bigger and bigger...so I figure maybe it's worth a shot!

Can anyone recommend an architect/structural engineer to call and get a 'yes this is possible' or 'no, impossible' on existing foundation? There's a few more items to deal with in terms of permits (multiplex type of home) but I think going vertical may be the best option.

thanks!
 
A friend of mine got into an older home last year with the idea that they would add in a second story. The quotes to add a second story to the home were not worth it at all. I think he was looking around $175k-$200k depending on some of the finishes and walls, etc. Other than the bent over price they late found out that the foundation couldn't support the extra weight and would cause problems. Also the weeping tile back then was made of Clay pipes and after they looked at that the found cracks. It was basically a Holmes on Homes kind of job.

I would suggest bank the cash and look to buy another home already with a second story. I know, not the answer you're looking for, but thought you might like to hear the experience I've learned through others.
 
Touchit said:
A friend of mine got into an older home last year with the idea that they would add in a second story. The quotes to add a second story to the home were not worth it at all. I think he was looking around $175k-$200k depending on some of the finishes and walls, etc. Other than the bent over price they late found out that the foundation couldn't support the extra weight and would cause problems. Also the weeping tile back then was made of Clay pipes and after they looked at that the found cracks. It was basically a Holmes on Homes kind of job.

I would suggest bank the cash and look to buy another home already with a second story. I know, not the answer you're looking for, but thought you might like to hear the experience I've learned through others.
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Maybe put a large winterproof shed in the back yard? :)
 
CruisnGrrl said:
Maybe put a large winterproof shed in the back yard? :)
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LOL! Not sure if that's going to be ideal for them. With another baby on the way. But, I'll propose your idea to them. Would be cheaper to put a few sheds together that connect to the house.
 
That's exactly what I'm looking for Touchit. Real life experiences!

As for price, I'm not overly worried about the work as my dad and I can do the majority of it I'd just have someone put up the frame, and outside walls. All the interior work we would do ourselves as we have the tools necessary and my dad knows the work very well.

It's whether the structure can withstand it, and what I need to get a permit approved (besides appeasing the neighbours). But I don't see much of an issue as the building isn't the tallest in the neighbourhood anyway, but who knows what a stupid neighbour can come up with.
 
Google prefab second story additions . This is what you want to try and do...fast easy and cost effective. Added in days instead of months
 
mimico_polak said:
How about sea containers? I've seen wonderful things done with those things put together!
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Sea-cans are a gimmick. All it gets you is the shell, nothing more, nothing less. If you calculate cost of traditional stick framing per foot it makes no sense whatsoever to consider a tin can. You still have to frame the inside of the thing.
 
sonnythebull said:
Google prefab second story additions . This is what you want to try and do...fast easy and cost effective. Added in days instead of months
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Only seen this option for full houses/cottages while driving along the 400. Thanks for that STB! There's a home show coming up which will include a few of these companies as well.

mmmnaked said:
Sea-cans are a gimmick. All it gets you is the shell, nothing more, nothing less. If you calculate cost of traditional stick framing per foot it makes no sense whatsoever to consider a tin can. You still have to frame the inside of the thing.
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I'm sure they are a gimmick...but it's still a cool concept.
 
mimico_polak said:
Can anyone recommend an architect/structural engineer to call and get a 'yes this is possible' or 'no, impossible' on existing foundation? There's a few more items to deal with in terms of permits (multiplex type of home) but I think going vertical may be the best option.

thanks!
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Thinking out loud here......gather as much information as you can about your existing structure and foundation.....hand draw with as much detail possible of your proposed addition.....take pics of house.....go to building dept. at city hall....ask to buy permit.....you will be asked to show plans......desk jockey/inspector will have strong opinions about your idea......
 
inreb said:
Thinking out loud here......gather as much information as you can about your existing structure and foundation.....hand draw with as much detail possible of your proposed addition.....take pics of house.....go to building dept. at city hall....ask to buy permit.....you will be asked to show plans......desk jockey/inspector will have strong opinions about your idea......
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I was under the impression hat the building department only looked at engineered drawings.
 
nobbie48 said:
I was under the impression hat the building department only looked at engineered drawings.
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Not in Hamilton when I put a stick building in my backyard. Only required engineered drawing for the trusses. The inspector graded my drawing with red pen and asked for some detail revision. I got the permit. I think the point is if you show good intent they have to take you at face value and "steer" you in the right direction. At this stage mimico pilot only wants feasibility. I would do this exercise as an exploratory measure.
 
mimico_polak said:
That's exactly what I'm looking for Touchit. Real life experiences!

As for price, I'm not overly worried about the work as my dad and I can do the majority of it I'd just have someone put up the frame, and outside walls. All the interior work we would do ourselves as we have the tools necessary and my dad knows the work very well.

It's whether the structure can withstand it, and what I need to get a permit approved (besides appeasing the neighbours). But I don't see much of an issue as the building isn't the tallest in the neighbourhood anyway, but who knows what a stupid neighbour can come up with.
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mimico_polak said:
Hey all,

Well with the house pricing the way it is right now looks like I won't be buying anything soon in the area so we're thinking of adding another level to the existing structure for more space.

It's an older (50's) building in South Etobicoke and there's a few houses in the area that are taller already, and the building permits seem to be allowing bigger and bigger...so I figure maybe it's worth a shot!

Can anyone recommend an architect/structural engineer to call and get a 'yes this is possible' or 'no, impossible' on existing foundation? There's a few more items to deal with in terms of permits (multiplex type of home) but I think going vertical may be the best option.

thanks!
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You do know not only the matter of the foundation carrying the new added weight but you will also need to tear into parts of the first floor beefing up the headers above all the existing openings in the house like windows and doors and in order to add the new second floor depending on the existing house bearing for the newfloor to be built. Which in your case probably is a multiple 2x8 or 2x10 in the basement so that may also be needed to be addressed.Unless the house is narrow and you could span the entire lenght with TGI joists to the outside walls.

A job like this is a big undertaking but the worst part is stripping the old roof and doing all the prep work to add a floor and a roof and of course having the home exposed to the elements for an extended period.

Once prepping is done the actual framing part if you use trusses should not take very long, I could probably frame and add the second story and roof in 2 to 3weeks.
Let me know if you actually follow through with it I can be of help...I probably wouldnt be interested in actually doing it for you... am too busy but can help with pointing you in the right direction.
 
Go talk to those neighbours. Inquire politely if they know who/how much/what was involved in the additions.

Just built a garage, engineered drawings got looked at really closely and building inspector was by every few months. We built it ourselves so it took a year but we figure we saved at least 40k-50k over having it built. If you can, DIY is the way to go.
 
inreb said:
Not in Hamilton when I put a stick building in my backyard. Only required engineered drawing for the trusses. The inspector graded my drawing with red pen and asked for some detail revision. I got the permit. I think the point is if you show good intent they have to take you at face value and "steer" you in the right direction. At this stage mimico pilot only wants feasibility. I would do this exercise as an exploratory measure.
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My daughter lives in Hamilton and rebuilding her front porch in a like-for-like makeover looked as if it was going to take more paper than lumber. The work was being done by a general contractor. Apparently they spare a homeowner some paper grief if they do the work themselves.

Originally they wanted engineered drawings and a full survey but some concessions were granted, saving two grand on a ten grand project.

If the project goes ahead keep in mind that permits, inspections, various city deposits etc can add a good sized chunk to the job.
 
FWIW a friend made his tired 50 year old bungalow into a modern looking two story doing it in two stages. It looked great from the street and inside until you went into the dungeon like basement and realized you were in a 50 year old house.
 
All I can say is be prepared for the unexpected on a home of that age.

In 2012 we added 400sq to a cottage that had been converted into a year round home that was originally built in the 30's. We had initially wanted to add a second story but our home was just not suitable to do so according to the engineers. We interviewed 4 contractors initially and decided to hire one who seemed to meet our needs. After providing us with engineered drawing's and a new estimate that had quadrupled from the original quote we fired them and went with our second choice which was the best decision ever.

Our new contractor worked with us every step of the way giving us choices while building. One at code level, two how he wanted to do it and three top of the line and overkill. Ultimately we ended up gutting the entire inside and outside and replacing the entire roof and structure of the existing house as well for very little extra. The only thing that dragged on was the time line do to us adding things and waiting on materials. We lived in our bedroom for about 60 days straight. If I was to do it over again I would have rented another place for a year instead of trying to remain in the residence.

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nobbie48 said:
If the project goes ahead keep in mind that permits, inspections, various city deposits etc can add a good sized chunk to the job.
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Hmmm, my backyard stick building permit was cheap and easy to get and the one inspection was a walk in the park. On another occasion I investigated extending the side garage forward. I took drawings and pictures to city hall and had a pretty in depth interview with guidance. Ultimately it wasn't worth proceeding(details irrelivant). From that experience I would have assumed a motivated diy builder get answers he needs w/o hiring engineering firm. Once green lighted get an engineering firm to engineer it up properly. Just thinking of saving money at the early exploratory stage.
 
Wow thanks everyone for the great input! Right now my wife and I are looking over what exactly we want to have upstairs on the top floor, and then we'll make up some preliminary sketches with dimensions, floor plan, and exact square footage that we want. We're thinking of adding a bedroom up there, a bathroom, and then a deck in order to enjoy some sunshine when the weather permits due to minimal space in the back that has any type of privacy.

I personally think that the biggest obstacle will be the foundation and receiving the permit. It's 2.5 stories tall already, and we want to build up on top of that (which is still lower than some of the surrounding homes).

The pre-fab idea seems like a perfect fit, as all I'd want is the company to do the outside walls, and roof, and the rest I'd just do myself because I know we can do a very good job on our own, without the added cost of it. The current roof is a flat roof, which I would prefer to modify to a sloped roof instead of another flat roof. This existing flat roof may actually help us out as I BELIEVE that it's strong enough to support added load.
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