Heated Drive way worth it? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Heated Drive way worth it?

sid_for_speed

sid_for_speed

Well-known member
Are heated driveways worth it? Anybody uses one? I know condos and commercial areas use them and I get jealous every time I look at them.. Then I come home to 2 feet of snow to be shovelled around.

My driveway is up for an overhaul as it's cracking and about to give up. Is it a good idea to lay down electrical heating elements and then pouring in the asphalt on top.. I assume I'll have to change out my breaker panel to 200 Amps. Anyone done this kinda project before? I assume the Hydro bill will be high for the time I actually use it, but thanks to global warming, I'm hoping ,I'll not have to use it much! :p
 
If you can power it for free after your initial investment it might be worth it.
Electric heat via meter would be the cheapest to install and most expensive to operate option, that holds true if you are heating your house or the great outdoors.
 
What do you want to know? I've been in the business for 40 years.

1) How big is your driveway?

2) How big is your wallet?

You're in TO so 35 watts per square foot for concrete. 40 Watts per square foot for asphalt or interlock. A lower wattage will work if you're patient.

Where will the melt water run to? If it ices up a sidewalk you create a hazard.

Check if the local building codes permit snow melting on city road allowances. Some don't.

Glycol systems use natural gas boilers for heat so no need to upgrade a panel. I was told panel upgrades now go underground at $20K-ish. Maybe an electrical contractor can confirm. Installation may be more expensive than electrical.
 
Cost both initial and operating are ridiculous and limited to the stupid wealthy. Also, since you mentioned cracking driveway, any in ground solution is off the table because if they break, its crazy expensive to fix. If you were seriously looking to do this, i'd instead look into the cost of professional snow removal. It'll probably cost you a fraction in the long run.
 
Aens said:
Cost both initial and operating are ridiculous and limited to the stupid wealthy. Also, since you mentioned cracking driveway, any in ground solution is off the table because if they break, its crazy expensive to fix. If you were seriously looking to do this, i'd instead look into the cost of professional snow removal. It'll probably cost you a fraction in the long run.
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I just wanted to check if I could squeeze in the heating elements as I was due to replace the driveway anyways...
 
nobbie48 said:
What do you want to know? I've been in the business for 40 years.

1) How big is your driveway?

2) How big is your wallet?

You're in TO so 35 watts per square foot for concrete. 40 Watts per square foot for asphalt or interlock. A lower wattage will work if you're patient.

Where will the melt water run to? If it ices up a sidewalk you create a hazard.

Check if the local building codes permit snow melting on city road allowances. Some don't.

Glycol systems use natural gas boilers for heat so no need to upgrade a panel. I was told panel upgrades now go underground at $20K-ish. Maybe an electrical contractor can confirm. Installation may be more expensive than electrical.
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Didn't know about the city issues with snow melt water... I will have to find out..

I have heard horror stories about Glycol systems and boilers, breaking down and costing $$ to repair...So I was thinking going with the electrical option..
 
sid_for_speed said:
Are heated driveways worth it? Anybody uses one? I know condos and commercial areas use them and I get jealous every time I look at them.. Then I come home to 2 feet of snow to be shovelled around.

My driveway is up for an overhaul as it's cracking and about to give up. Is it a good idea to lay down electrical heating elements and then pouring in the asphalt on top.. I assume I'll have to change out my breaker panel to 200 Amps. Anyone done this kinda project before? I assume the Hydro bill will be high for the time I actually use it, but thanks to global warming, I'm hoping ,I'll not have to use it much! :p
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Electrical - no, glycol yes.

I had one in my place when I bought it, 10KW. I thought great - no shovelling ever again. Well 10kw running for 24hrs costs $25/day to run. My first electricity bill was over $1500.

Also, I don't think you can do it in asphalt, they need to be in concrete.

I like the new PEX systems, they go under concrete, asphalt and interlock. Cheap too. I watched them install up the street, they use glycol running off a small natural gas heater and circulation pump in their basement. In the summer it he can switch the lines over to his pool and use the driveway grid as a massive solar heater.
 
I would imagine electrical elements would be totally stupid to pay to operate. My moms condo did a 20x40 pad outside the front door , mini boiler to heat glycol, pump system to push glycol through the pad, new concrete pad install, was about 50K all in. Even with commercial snow removal it became needed since it could snow before the plow was available and its all about liability .
 
I'm with the rest. It's cool but mainly for the super rich as operating cost is ridiculous (you are heating hundreds of square feet outside after all). A snow removal contract should cost much less than the operating cost. Hell, for the operating costs MM was talking about, you can probably get a guaranteed front-of-the-line deal.
 
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I once had a gigantic buildup of ice in the rain gutter that flowed over and created a giant chunk the size of a backpack. A propane torch took forever to 'cut' it even from the underside. People underestimate how much thermal energy is needed to melt a chunk of ice.

sid_for_speed said:
I just wanted to check if I could squeeze in the heating elements as I was due to replace the driveway anyways...
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What I meant was that if your driveway cracked due to the ground shifting and sinking, then an in-ground solution will need concrete too.
 
Hack said:
For $1500 I will come over every time it snows and shovel your driveway. You get to pick the outfit I wear.
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Sure but the driveway is 600' sounds like a deal.

Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk
 
Mad Mike said:
Electrical - no, glycol yes.

I had one in my place when I bought it, 10KW. I thought great - no shovelling ever again. Well 10kw running for 24hrs costs $25/day to run. My first electricity bill was over $1500.

Also, I don't think you can do it in asphalt, they need to be in concrete.

I like the new PEX systems, they go under concrete, asphalt and interlock. Cheap too. I watched them install up the street, they use glycol running off a small natural gas heater and circulation pump in their basement. In the summer it he can switch the lines over to his pool and use the driveway grid as a massive solar heater.
Click to expand...

I've only been involved with the electrical systems but have heard that the older hydronic (Glycol ) ones ran high temperature / low flow and if shut off, the thermal shock could damage the boiler. Newer ones run low temperature high flow and apparently don't have the problem. Reaction time is longer IIRC. Really old systems ran steel pipes that corroded.

Natural gas is normally used to avoid the massive panel size.

Electrically, a 1000 SF slab would need about 40 Kw and typically run 600 hours per year. At $0.15 / Kw that's around $3600.00. You need a 200 amp service just for the cables.

Cables can be installed in concrete but the slab has to be designed to not crack as cracks break cables.

Hot rolled asphalt works for most cables but there have been problems due to the increased use of recycled material that contained large stones that damaged the cables. High stability asphalt can be problematic as well as it contains sharp stones.

Mastic asphalt is normally only used for commercial applications as it goes down at 400°F. Some cables are OK with that.

A really good method is putting the cables in the screenings under interlock. If there is any shifting or settling the cables are in a flexible medium. A bit more power is recommended.

If a cable gets damaged a few pavers can be lifted and replaced after the repair.

A grossly underpowered system is a disaster. When a blanket of snow forms it acts as an insulator allowing the slab to heat and make the snow into slush. Slush isn't an insulator so the heat loss off the top becomes less than what is being produced by the cables. Then the slush freezes and you end up with a heated hockey rink.

Snowblowers are cheap.
 
Aens said:
I once had a gigantic buildup of ice in the rain gutter that flowed over and created a giant chunk the size of a backpack. A propane torch took forever to 'cut' it even from the underside. People underestimate how much thermal energy is needed to melt a chunk of ice.
Click to expand...

Yep! Try melting a sheet of Ice frozen on the back of an industrial evaporator... :p
 
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