Green to Yellow to Red Group | GTAMotorcycle.com

Green to Yellow to Red Group

justride

justride

Well-known member
What did you focus on or back off on for you to go on to the next level? Love to hear your track day progress.
Did about 4 or 5 track days last year, I think am getting better (very slowly). I heard some riders have some sort plan/ things to work on the track so am gonna look up some track plan for newbies but I get too excited!
 
justride said:
What did you focus on or back off on for you to go on to the next level? Love to hear your track day progress.
Did about 4 or 5 track days last year, I think am getting better (very slowly). I heard some riders have some sort plan/ things to work on the track so am gonna look up some track plan for newbies but I get too excited!
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Are you just doing track days or are you doing courses as well? Wobbling around with a bunch of other people that half know what they are doing will get you better slowly (sometimes) but you can often make huge strides with help from somebody that knows more (especially if they are a good instructor).
 
Unless the track day organizer actively moves people between groups based on lap times (not many do), then Yellow group tends to be a sh1tshow of cherry pickers who should be in Red group and lesser skilled riders with fragile egos who should be in Green group.

Moving from Green to Yellow should be based on lap times and you should be comfortable passing and being passed out of corners and on the straightaway. Moving from Yellow to Red, also lap time based, and you should be comfortable passing and being passed anywhere.
 
"Wobbling around with a bunch of other people that half know what they are doing"
You nailed it. That's exactly what I did last summer
I can only hit a couple of corners confidently and consistently. Rest of the track, braking, speed, corner enter/exit is all over the place.
Undecided going to FAST Riding school because my thinking is the money for the school I can put towards 3 days of track but then I see the quality of coaches and the high reviews they have.
 
If you're not going to take a track school, then focus on these things:

- learn the proper racing line: corner entry, apex and exit
- learn to be smooth and consistent, don't upset the suspension when getting on and off the brakes and throttle, set and hit your braking markers consistently and push them out later and later, when you gain more confidence and skill

Body positioning and getting a knee down should be things you focus on after you master the above. Unfortunately, too many track newbs focus solely on this.
 
I used to go yellow, and depending on the day would be pretty average, but as @Lightcycle says above, I usually find the biggest percentage of idiots in that group. It's also usually the group with the most crashes, which can affect your time on track.

Because I'm only there to have fun these days and not fussed about setting lap records, I now often ride in green, happier to be stuck for a few corners behind a slowpoke than I am to be t-boned by an idiot outbraking himself on the inside. It's usually pretty easy to find clear track in green, as you can get around most people as needed. The worst are the superbike wobblers, who use 200 hp and TC to jet down the straights, but a quick pit in usually creates enough space to get through the session without having to repass them yet again.

As for improvement, three days at FAST will likely do more than 20 track days on your own...
 
Priller said:
Because I'm only there to have fun these days and not fussed about setting lap records, I now often ride in green, happier to be stuck for a few corners behind a slowpoke than I am to be t-boned by an idiot outbraking himself on the inside. It's usually pretty easy to find clear track in green, as you can get around most people as needed.
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If I were to start doing track days again, this is exactly what I would do.
 
I agree with all of the above especially Lightcycle's advice of working on fundamentals and consistency. For me, YouTube videos have been very helpful to improve little by little e.g. the ones you posted in another thread here.

I started with Racer5 in 2018, blown knee kept me out 2019, green group 2020, green Calabogie / yellow Shannonville 2021. I'm going back to Racer5 for the Continuation Program in May as a refresher. The amount of time you get out on track I feel is great to work on the fundamentals, and the crappy suspension on the 125/250cc bikes makes you work even harder to avoid upsetting the bike - forces you to be smooth.

My thought process generally - study track beforehand, tire pressures, learn track, marshalls position, passing zones, get familiar with markers, racing line, gears, how one corner affects the next, relax, be smooth, be consistent, braking markers, am I getting on throttle too early?, try braking a little later at markers, relax again, notes, reflect on where I could be fast, work on corner exit / smooth on throttle, arm position, body position, once I'm at a decent enough pace - comfortable and consistent, I start thinking about suspension.

I do prefer yellow at Shannonville with Riders Choice despite the mentioned stoppages. I find green sometimes has new riders that are really unpredictable - easy to spot but if you haven't got much power and they do - can be a little scary. I'm completely happy with green at Calabogie with Pro6.
 
It's all relative to who else is in the group on that day, but a couple of things to consider:

1) Are you getting held up in the corners by trains of slower riders often enough that you don't get any clean laps in a session, even if you come in to the pits to try to get some space? Might be time to bump up to a faster group, although getting clean laps also depends on whether the group simply has too many riders in it.

2) Are other riders getting held up by you in the corners? Run a camera facing backwards for a session or two and review it at the end of the day. If you frequently see a train of riders stuck behind you through the corners, or if you blast by a smaller bike on the straight and then see that guy sitting up and shaking his head behind you in the braking zone, then maybe it's time to take a course or drop down to a slower group.
 
I love the mental side of riding and I've got a big stack of books on performance riding (Twist of the Wrist, etc). They can help you get the theory down, but the written word is actually really lousy for describing what happens on a motorcycle. It's easy to get fixated on some obscure technique and completely miss the basics.

The best book on performance motorcycle riding I've ever read is "The Inner Game of Tennis", and it doesn't mention motorcycles even once. It helped me back away from an overly-analytical approach to riding and start trusting myself and the bike more. Big gains in speed and confidence.

A course like FAST or Racer5 will go a long way to establishing a good foundation that you can build on. It's totally worthwhile getting some objective assessment of your riding from a competent instructor. After that, get as much track time as you can afford, and compare notes with other competent riders that you trust. And if possible, get other riders to film you.
 
Regardless of what group I was riding in, I was always focusing on working on my lines. I would pick one or two corners per session until I felt very comfortable, then work on the next corner or two. By doing that instead of trying to work on an entire lap, the track will come together better for you.
As for groups, I stayed in Green until I was one of the quicker riders and then moved up to Yellow. Same thing for that group. I stayed until I was one of the quickest riders and not getting passed before moving up to Red.
Track familiarity is also a determining factor. I ride Red at Calabogie because I know that track well, but CTMP I’ll drop down to Yellow because I’ve only ridden there two or three times over the years.
 
The other thing that has helped me see progress is keeping track of lap times. Many ways to do this. I personally like to use an old Garmin GPS watch that I have and check the data once at lunch and after the day is done. I just calculate the time between peaks on elevation readings. Not the most accurate but it's not Q2 at Misano so doesn't need to be - I just want to see if I'm making progress over the year. At Calabogie last year I had 3:10+ in May (first weekend), 2:50 in June, consistent 2:44 in September and season best 2:42. So it's progress even if some days and some sessions don't go as planned. Also gives me a rough target of ~2:35 to work towards this year with a similar bike setup.

Screenshot_20220212-215728_Connect.jpg
 
bastak said:
The other thing that has helped me see progress is keeping track of lap times. Many ways to do this. I personally like to use an old Garmin GPS watch that I have and check the data once at lunch and after the day is done. I just calculate the time between peaks on elevation readings. Not the most accurate but it's not Q2 at Misano so doesn't need to be - I just want to see if I'm making progress over the year. At Calabogie last year I had 3:10+ in May (first weekend), 2:50 in June, consistent 2:44 in September and season best 2:42. So it's progress even if some days and some sessions don't go as planned. Also gives me a rough target of ~2:35 to work towards this year with a similar bike setup.

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Just out of curiosity, what bike are you running?
 
bastak said:
@Katatonic 3rd gen SV650
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Great track bike! Once the track ‘clicks’ for you, it’ll shave so much time off as everything will just flow together.
And to give you some motivation, on a rainy day this past season I was running 2:38-2:40’s on a Kawasaki Versys with Pilot Road 5 touring tires!

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A lot of great info in this thread.
The best thing a track day organizer can do to make things run well is to firmly keep skill levels in the proper group.
"I wanna ride with my husband" should not be tolerated. Riding in the middle group and coming up on a few "friends" riding three abreast into t8 at ctmp is dangerous if not deadly.
Just as deadly as coming up on someone who is riding in a 1:30 group at a 2:00 pace just because that person has spent $30k on the latest fastest tool. My last trackday at ctmp,i was passed like i was standing still by a guy on a new 1098. Coming up on t8 he parked it and let it run waaaay wide.i was committed to making an outside pass and had to use the paved runoff.
Complaining about it would have meant hurt feelings and it wasn't worth it.
 
Here's one on the last turn (Turn 20) before the front straight. A first for me last season was feeling the rear move around a bit on corner exit here. Makes me nervous as I'm not used to that sensation - I try to be smoother on the throttle and not get too hard on it until the bike is more upright - but I suppose it's somewhat inevitable to get that without traction control?

@Katatonic with the Versys on Pilot Road 5s - assuming it's in the dry - do you ride in a vastly different way than you would a typical sport bike? I'd imagine you'd have to exaggerate body position, especially in the arms with wide bars? Is lean angle limited by footpegs? Or is it a matter of toning it down a little overall - less lean, brake earlier, easier on throttle, etc?

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To be quick you must be online. If you are getting offline slow down. You should be within 18" of where you want to be at all times. That allows room for mistakes without running off track. When you can be online lap after lap its time to go faster. If you are online all the time everyone else can pass safely. Lately I see alot of people all over the place, makes it unsafe to pass, and collisions happen. I haven't fallen off a track bike since 1992 and can keep up with most red group riders. The rear will move around alot under hard throttle leaving corners. The front will move alot under hard trail braking, if you turn in too early more front brake can be applied to cause it to slide and miss the inside curb, takes practice. :) Riding a dirt bike may help with being comfortable with the tires moving about. Most important have fun. I also enjoy track riding in the rain its so fun to be sideways.
 
bastak said:
Here's one on the last turn (Turn 20) before the front straight. A first for me last season was feeling the rear move around a bit on corner exit here. Makes me nervous as I'm not used to that sensation - I try to be smoother on the throttle and not get too hard on it until the bike is more upright - but I suppose it's somewhat inevitable to get that without traction control?

@Katatonic with the Versys on Pilot Road 5s - assuming it's in the dry - do you ride in a vastly different way than you would a typical sport bike? I'd imagine you'd have to exaggerate body position, especially in the arms with wide bars? Is lean angle limited by footpegs? Or is it a matter of toning it down a little overall - less lean, brake earlier, easier on throttle, etc?

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Even in the wet the pegs were scraping on both sides so even with hanging way off the bike, the pegs seemed to be the limiting factor.
The key was to be super smooth going into corners, roll on smooth on exit and just before the bike was upright go WOT and let the rear slide a little. It was a lot of fun! But because of the limiting factors of it, I doubt it would be much fun in the dry.
 
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