Gaining experience on highways and locking the rear tire on 401 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Gaining experience on highways and locking the rear tire on 401

motorsiklet

motorsiklet

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Hi

I got my m2 licence last summer and got my bike( 2009 Kawasaki 250r)in October, but waited for a year to get better insurance. finally i got the insurance last Friday and since then i have riding the bike everyday (5 days) for 3 hours a day mostly on highways . Here is what i think about riding the bike so far and would like to hear your opinions and advises.

i feel safer on the highways than roads , i have ridden the bike on 427, 401, DVP and gardiner . one thing that i dont like much is that you have to go really fast on highways (401) if you are sticking with left (fast lane).i feel much safer on the left fast lane than middle or right lane . there are more lane movements on the middle and right lane , also i find that drivers are much better on the left fast lane. i usually go on the fast lane and swing once in a while to get more experience on lane changes and passing cars . im ok with riding the bike with speed limits but on the left lane i find myself doing min 120 and max 160 (yes Kawasaki 250 can make 180 if you want ). yeah i know my speedometer shows 130 when im doing 120 actually. so my speedometer is mostly between 130 and 170 on the highways . i think so far 401 is the fastest , DVP is good for leaning experience and gardiner is pretty slow and best for new riders.

the reason i have to go fast is because of car drivers are letting me pass them with getting out of my lane (even tho i don't tailgate them ) or when im slowing down to 120 i find cars following me way too close on fast lane , i try to leave as much as distance from the cars front and rear. so what do u think? how can i ride the bike in better speeds or lets say the speed im fine with. (BTW i don't wanna get any speeding tickets because of that, my insurance high enough :)

another thing is leaning , i usually slow down to 110 -120 from 140 when im leaning on DVP . when i tried to lean more i felt like tires wouldn't handle it on 140 so slowing down make it more safer .

also id like to know when do u duck on the your bike ?, i usually duck once i pass 100 , because the bike isnt that powerful and i feel like more focused on riding when im ducking , but i have seen some riders with bigger bikes they dont duck at all even they do 140 .

so far there was only one time i got scared , it was yesterday when i had to do emergency slowing on 401 from 140 to 40 kms. there was an accident i guess on 401 and islington yesterday around 8 pm and cars suddenly slowed down , so when pushed the rear brakes , rear tire started skidding (never happend before even tho i had to slow down afew times last couple of days) . i released it after i felt like tire is skidding , tho i had to slow down more so i released and pushed the rear brakes 3 times , and everytime i did it skidded. i did slow down comfortably tho , tire skidded straight , i didnt loose the control of the bike at all (maybe because of skidding my bicycle alot when i was kid:) , i dont really remember if i pushed the front brake hard enough , maybe happened because of not pushing the front brake hard enough , but would like to hear your opinions about this as well. i really felt the absence of ABS yesterday because of what happened.


sorry for the broken english as its my second language...
thanks ride safe...
 
3 hours! I applaud you.

I only duck when its windy. I duck so my head doesn't get thrown around by the wind. It can be pretty windy even at 120-140.

I give the rear brake the same amount of force whether or not I'm braking normally or in an emergency. To me it's worth using for the added braking power, but not worth it to get a little more out of it to risk skidding. So I never use it roughly. I use it all the time though so I'm used to how much pressure to give it when i'm doing slow speed turns.

I feel a lot safer on the highway too. Nobody turning in front of you, or pedestrians, not much obstructing your view. shoulders to use in an emergency, lots of space to lane change/filter when needed.
 
Been riding on the highway 407 and 401 and i find highway riding really uncomfortable. At about 120km/h if your are not ducking, the wind is really strong. Also there is a lot of cross winds and the bike tends to sway and get pushed around all over the place.

I dont know if larger bikes are more stabler at highway speeds but i also see guys riding 600's at 140km/h and thye are just sitting up straight like nothing is going on..
 
i took the learning curve training course and i dont remember that they told us to keep it the rear locked if it locks up. i know from the skidding my bicycle alot , if you keep it locked , rear tire will eventually lean to right or left depending on bikes position... so i did release it and reapply the brakes and it was all fine tire skidded straight without losing control...
 
motorsiklet said:
i think so far 401 is the fastest , DVP is good for leaning experience and gardiner is pretty slow and best for new riders. safe...
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Actually the Gardiner with all of it's pot holes is the worse than the other highways you mentioned.

Don't use the DVP as a place to experiment, go to a large deserted parking lot on the weekend, or even better try something like racer5.ca.
 
Your motorcycle is not your bicycle, despite what it may look like. The point of holding a rear wheel skid is to keep from high-siding, in the event that the skid causes the rear to come out of line with the front. If it does that and you open the break, the tire is going catch itself on the pavement while not parallel with the direction of the bike. This is especially prominent when locking the rear on a slippery surface. I'm sure you did this a lot while riding your bike as a kid (I sure did), but the speed you're carrying on a motorcycle can create disastrous results. If the rear stays in line with the front, however, unlocking the rear will be mostly harmless. Front break should easily be the most dominant when stopping.

Most of what you're asking is simply going to have to be learned with experience. I take to the 400 series on my 250, and a little leg and core strength will keep you from feeling helpless in the wind. If not, then tuck. You're the one riding, you'll figure out what works best. Just take it a little slower, use the right lane, the wind feels a lot less intense at 120 than it does at 140.
 
Duck when you want, really. I used to drive a cruiser and could not duck much on the highway, now on the ninja I duck almost my entire time. I stand up when I am slowing down or looking at traffic ahead. I duck also based on comfort from the wind. I am used to the wind pushing on my chest so I don't care standing up straight at 140 but I do know I am killing gas and slowing down the bike.

As mentioned, you should practice braking in a parking lot, this will give you more room to experiment and safety!.

Left lane on the highway is usually the best because you only worry about people on the right, do try to move to right lane and learn a bit on how to anticipate traffic and to deal with bad situations, I personally have to sit on the right lane of the 404 south since steels and I had to learn how to make myself visible in my lane, is really sketchy when you have cars coming in the highway and trying to leave the highway specially around 5pm, I personally hate it and become really aggressive about my space and my lane, also even revving my engine.

leaning is best learn out on roads up north and lots of twisties, I personally avoid leaning on the DVP as much as possible.

EDIT: oh yes and back tire locking can be compensated by moving your weight to the back of the bike, again practice in a parking lot....
 
Skidding may also be you panicking and applying more braking force at the rear than you should. I think you are still new so are still getting to know how much brake can be applied to the rear at different speeds. Still the majority of your braking is from the front brakes (80%), just don't go and suddenly grab a handful of front brake (ie using all 4 fingers at near full power) as that will unsettle the front end enough to likely either cause an endo at slower speeds or cause a skid at higher speeds.
I use 2 fingers on my 250 most of the time, I have hydraulic discs on my bicycle and it gave me good practice in smooth braking that carried over to motorcycles.
 
thanks for all sharing ur experiences.

Yeah i try to use my front brake more often now. usually trying to apply front and rear brake equally. i think wind on the highways would be avoided with ducking easily, i do feel the cross winds on the bridges , but mostly i dont feel comfortable with wind . gardener is pretty good now they have fixed most of the roads and its not windy and as fast as 401. i think northern highways are more windy .

i do practice on parking lot for emergency stopping , but there is not much u can do for leaning on parking lot , i usually take the highway on no rush hour and try to get used to roads , noticing where to slow down and pay attention to potholes.

how about the speed on highway? whats ur average speed? are u scared of getting a ticket ? as i said i do between 130 to 160 mostly ,

also some silly car drivers try to race with me on the roads...what do u do when it happens? i usually just get rid of them with going fast on the green lights or turning right or left somewhere near.
 
motorsiklet said:
how about the speed on highway? whats ur average speed? are u scared of getting a ticket ? as i said i do between 130 to 160 mostly ,
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I have yet to get a ticket while on the bike, and I tend not to any faster than 120 on the highway. I wouldn't push it much past that if I were you - cops seem to have a hard-on for nailing bikers, and you're giving them a perfect excuse with those speeds.

also some silly car drivers try to race with me on the roads...what do u do when it happens? i usually just get rid of them with going fast on the green lights or turning right or left somewhere near.
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Ignore them and carry on. I've been riding for 5+ years and I've never had anyone try to race me.
 
Hey, great to see you're pushing your abilities gradually and getting used to new situations, it's the only way to get better! A couple of thoughts came to mind reading your post:

1- If you want to get better and safer, I would suggest practicing manoeuvering, cornering and emergency braking in safe environments away from the highway (empty parking lot, country road, etc..). Doing 140kph is a bad time to find that your bike control skills are not as good as you thought they were... like that rear skid. Most bikes with decent tires have the ability to out brake cars by a big margin. So a rear skid like this in normal traffic braking was likely a technique issue on your part (don't worry, we've all done it at one time or another, myself included)

2- Under hard braking, nearly all the bike's weight shifts forward onto the front wheel. An extreme example of this would be someone doing a stoppie where the rear tire lifts all the way off the ground. Because there is very little weight on the rear tire, it has very little traction and can lock up with almost no braking at all. When emergency braking, do at least 80-90% of your braking with the front brake. If the rear DOES lock up, do not release that brake suddenly or it can highside like Bermuda said. As long as it's still in line with the front, you can gradually release pressure on the rear. However this may be hard for you do consciously do in an emergency situation and that is why beginner riding schools do not recommend it.

3 - Read/watch "A Twist Of The Wrist 2" AKA, the cornering bible. It was originally written for aggressive sport bike riding, but applies to all bikes and it'll teach you more than you probably care to know about how to handle your bike. There's a movie version which is even better. If you actually implement all the principles in this, it will make you more competent than 95% of all riders out there at controlling your bike.

4- The easiest thing to do on a bike is go fast in a straight line or on smoothly curving highways (at least below the speed where you'd get your bike confiscated). Because of this, it can fool you into a false sense of security at speed and get you into trouble when unexpected things happen. The things that will get you real respect from skilled bikers are the ability to manoever your bike well at very slow speeds and the ability to handle the twisties like a pro.

Overall, congrats on working on your skills and keep it up, but ride safe!
 
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I'm sorry I have to be the one to say it but this is a good learning story, i agree with another fellow member that the DVP is a horrible place to learn. i've been licensed since 2008 and i haven't brought my bike on the dvp, to hazardous with all the pot holes and such. BUT.......you wouldn't have to lock up the brakes like you did if you weren't going 160 km's on the highway, if you cruise the speed limit or do 120 and don't get nervous around other cars you'll be fine, at least if that situation ever happens again, you'll have more time to react cruising at 120 rather then 160-180 ... and won't lock up the rear brake, maybe you'd be able to change lanes or something different you know ?

I hope i'm not being offensive, but when you're trying to teach yourself something, its probably best not to teach yourself to travel at 160 km's an hour. Just saying.

RIde safe :) !
 
Try not to tailgate cars in front of you. Also, you do not need to pass every car on the highway. Pace traffic speed. When I had my 250, I almost never used my rear brake except for stopping on hills and slow speed practice. Most stops were done with front brake and engine braking.

If you feel the need to go 160 to be safe on the highway with traffic, you are doing something wrong.
 
minirx7 said:
Been riding on the highway 407 and 401 and i find highway riding really uncomfortable. At about 120km/h if your are not ducking, the wind is really strong. Also there is a lot of cross winds and the bike tends to sway and get pushed around all over the place.

I dont know if larger bikes are more stabler at highway speeds but i also see guys riding 600's at 140km/h and thye are just sitting up straight like nothing is going on..
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No issues at 140......it's your bike. My friend that rides his ninja 250 with me complains about the same thing, where I don't feel it at all really on a 600.
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