First step in privatizing healthcare? | GTAMotorcycle.com

First step in privatizing healthcare?

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mimico_polak

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Well, it's here...transfer of funds from our own healthcare toward the private sector to clear the backlog of imaging scans, and 'non complex' surgeries within the private network.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario unveils three-step plan to tackle hospital wait times, surgical backlog

Premier Doug Ford's office offered no details about the 10 a.m. press conference in Toronto alongside Health Minister Sylvia Jones.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

I'm not smart enough to understand whether this is good or bad, but I expect this will not be a good step forward as it incentives staff to leave the public sector to the private clinics if that's where the higher wages are, meaning it'll continue the downward spiral of our private healthcare.

How is this allowed? We're already paying private doctors / clinics for the work under OHIP, and this seems to expand those services available under the private clinic sector.
 
These “private” centres for various analyses have been popping up for years. I’m also confused with our current system because it seems like an amalgamation of private/public already. When I get an X ray sometimes that seems to be at a third party business rather than a hospital, bloodwork same thing. Patient transfers can be the same thing.

Publicly accessible, “free” healthcare should be the jewel in the crown of any first world country and any party trying to run that down in order to enrich corporations at the expense of the accessible healthcare of the public will never get my vote.
 
mimico_polak said:
Thanks for that! I read her 'No Logo' many years ago and remember enjoying it.
Click to expand...
Yes, like No Logo it's a bit of a slog but when she describes the changes to education in New Orleans after Katrina it almost makes you cry.
 
From what I see it could either be a good start to clear some backlog for less complicated surgeries or a new way to "upsell" customers for services not covered by the OHIP.
 
raginduck said:
This isn't new... it's just being expanded.
Shouldice Hernia Hospital is an example of this.. and has been doing it for some time.
Click to expand...
I was just going to say that ... my father had a hernia operation done years ago there.
 
Jampy00 said:
From what I see it could either be a good start to clear some backlog for less complicated surgeries or a new way to "upsell" customers for services not covered by the OHIP.
Click to expand...
I get keretosis lesions on my face due to sun exposure from working and playing outside. My previous dermatologist retired a few years ago and I was referred to a new one. He is not as thorough and even dismissive on things I've pointed out.

That resulted in a Mho surgery to remove a bit of skin cancer. If caught earlier it would have been removed by drugs (Aldera). I've had that as well and the concept is A-1. Smear on a cream and it locks onto the cancer cells. The body now sees the cancer cells and rejects them. They turn into scabs that fall off. It's like using paint stripper to remove only the paint, no excess grinding away of the good stuff.

The problem I am sensing with dermatologists is that the big money is in the non OHIP procedures, Botax, cosmetics, spider veins etc and all kinds of "Youth" stuff. They don't want the OHIP regulated stuff.

The up side was that the private clinic that did my surgery treated me like royalty and it didn't cost a cent. I could have asked for anti scarring lotions at extra cost but for me, that would be a bit late.

I resent Ford suggesting that knee and hip replacement can be done by Canadian Tire. WTH it's mostly ball joints and not much different than front end suspension.
 
hip replacement used to be 3weeks in hospital now its 5 days or less, knee replacement is close to day surgery. My knee fix , not replace, was 3hrs .
While I wouldn't let CTC do a wheel alignment on my appliance cart, we can get some procedures out of a hospital setting
 
mimico_polak said:
Well, it's here...transfer of funds from our own healthcare toward the private sector to clear the backlog of imaging scans, and 'non complex' surgeries within the private network.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario unveils three-step plan to tackle hospital wait times, surgical backlog

Premier Doug Ford's office offered no details about the 10 a.m. press conference in Toronto alongside Health Minister Sylvia Jones.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

I'm not smart enough to understand whether this is good or bad, but I expect this will not be a good step forward as it incentives staff to leave the public sector to the private clinics if that's where the higher wages are, meaning it'll continue the downward spiral of our private healthcare.

How is this allowed? We're already paying private doctors / clinics for the work under OHIP, and this seems to expand those services available under the private clinic sector.
Click to expand...
Wohoo! it's about time they started to engage the private sector.

I'm not worried about for-profit businesses entering the fray -- OHIP is insurance, it shouldn't take the full burden of delivering healthcare. The gov't already saves a fortune by using private operators for imaging, lab work, dental surgery, rehab transportation services -- that model has proven that replacing the cost of inefficiency and bureaucracy with profit is a winning proposition.

I expect unions will be the first to scream bloody murder (if they haven't already). It's been easy for them to hold gov't hostage, not as easy in the public sector.
 
jc100 said:
These “private” centres for various analyses have been popping up for years. I’m also confused with our current system because it seems like an amalgamation of private/public already. When I get an X ray sometimes that seems to be at a third party business rather than a hospital, bloodwork same thing. Patient transfers can be the same thing.

Publicly accessible, “free” healthcare should be the jewel in the crown of any first world country and any party trying to run that down in order to enrich corporations at the expense of the accessible healthcare of the public will never get my vote.
Click to expand...
It can be public, accessible, and free without having the gov't running the system.

If you view profit as nasty, what's your opinion on bureaucracy and the lower productivity levels of gov't delivered services?
 
We currently have a shortage of nurses and doctors not a shortage of facilities (other than ER and ICU). Adding more facilities for non ER and ICU won't help unless they can get qualified people to work in them, it will make it worse if they poach from hospitals to fill the gaps in the private...

This may have been a great idea four years ago and a few years from now maybe, I do not see it making anything better when it comes to the current issues.
 
One of the biggest sucking sounds right now for nurses is bailing to work in the private sector. Nice day shifts , no holidays and you earn what a hospital nurse does. Work a bit harder and do remote nursing , you'll be onsite as a provincial contract nurse, standing beside a private contract nurse , who is in the same pension program as you and makes $5buck an hour more LOL. So you switch hats . Doctors are doing the same , go work on reservation xxx for a week, make a months wages as the OHIP cap doesnt exist in there.

Hospitals are jammed , private places have space , it makes sense today imo
 
Mad Mike said:
It can be public, accessible, and free without having the gov't running the system.

If you view profit as nasty, what's your opinion on bureaucracy and the lower productivity levels of gov't delivered services?
Click to expand...

I don’t have an issue until such time as the private entities charge too much for their services to the gov. and bankrupt the system we have.

That’s never happened before though right.
 
jc100 said:
I don’t have an issue until such time as the private entities charge too much for their services to the gov. and bankrupt the system we have.

That’s never happened before though right.
Click to expand...
There are models in the world that work very very well (like australia). Copying them would be the short path to success. Politicians of all colours far prefer to chart there own path with normally results in epic failure.

On a related note OPSEU bosses in hot water over millions in transfers to themselves and family. Public sector unions enrich their corrupt bosses far more than private corporations will.
 
GreyGhost said:
There are models in the world that work very very well (like australia). Copying them would be the short path to success. Politicians of all colours far prefer to chart there own path with normally results in epic failure.

On a related note OPSEU bosses in hot water over millions in transfers to themselves and family. Public sector unions enrich their corrupt bosses far more than private corporations will.
Click to expand...
The UK is suffering massive strikes on the rail system right now due to the ****** way private companies have handled their business. Not all privatization works well but I’ll also concede that not all nationalised industry works well either. Whenever someone steps in and treats anything as a cash cow it goes to ****. Unfortunately the US shows how things shouldn’t work for the people but can work incredibly well for investors/businesses.
 
Australia's system is pretty decent - I tend to use the public system more than partner who pays for private coverage tho there are some additional perks with private.
Private and public work very closely together.

Switzerland is another with a mixed system and seems successful tho can be expensive

Guide to Health Insurance and Healthcare System in Switzerland | InterNations

InterNations provides you what you need to know about health insurance and the healthcare system in Switzerland. Learn about costs, hospitals and much more.
www.internations.org www.internations.org

The risk for Canada is the 900lb gorilla to the south buying their way in.
The abuses of the citizenry down there is criminal as is the waste and as for more efficient,
...I would not call the 25% administratlive costs the US system efficient use of funds or a flag wave for "free market"...

We are at 11% afaik while Taiwan which is fully public I think has only 2%.
borgenproject.org

6 Facts About Healthcare in Taiwan - The Borgen Project

Taiwan provides universal healthcare to more than 23 million. Here are 6 facts about healthcare in Taiwan under the National Health Insurance (NHI) program.
borgenproject.org borgenproject.org
 
raginduck said:
This isn't new... it's just being expanded.
Shouldice Hernia Hospital is an example of this.. and has been doing it for some time.
Click to expand...
IMHO Shouldice is a bad example. They pioneered a procedure, that you can now get at any Ontario hospital, maybe by a Shouldice trained DR.
... but at any other hospital you'll get operated on by a "general" surgeon, that does lots of other procedures, which is better use of a surgeon.
We already have "specialist" hospitals: if you need complicated eye surgery, you're going to Toronto Western (where you'll probably get cut by a Cuban from Havana), if you need complicated brain surgery on a rocket scientist, you're going to Western, you want nuclear medicine? Go see my nephew at McMaster.
What Shouldice has that makes it work is a workable business plan. They have a product, they know how to deliver the product, and they're good at it.
My father had his hernia's done at Shouldice, 50 yrs ago, paid for by OHIP. When I had my hernia's done, I was offered Shouldice (I didn't go, I should have. I had mine done in the era of the "mesh")... but I betcha we weren't getting he same level of care as a Saudi prince at Shouldice.
Shouldice doesn't control a lot of their costs. They're buying the same operating tables as Ontario, they're buying the same doctors as Ontario, their building costs are probably higher than Ontario... the difference is the management.
Doug Ford can't control the fixed costs of Ontario medical, but he CAN control the management... so isn't Doug Ford wanting to privatize medical in Ontario mean that Doug Ford admits he can't manage a large conglomerate like Ontario medical... BUT the answer is Doug Ford's cronies or American corporations.
That doesn't even come close to making sense. Is Doug Ford bringing us privatized medicine, Doug Ford admitting defeat and throwing in the towel, and his defeat is going to put us in a irreversible situation
... or is is Doug Ford telling us backhandedly that there is a killing to be made in privatized medicine, which backhandedly tells us he knows we're getting hosed and if we privatize we'll get more hosed.
If "privatized" medicine can hire better management that can cut costs, why can't premier Doug? If "privatized" medicine can make a profit in Ontario, doesn't that mean there is currently mis-spending in the system.
...and if "privatized" medicine is the "answer", why are medical cost in America, and their privatized medicine, 2-3 times what it is here.

Tommy Douglas brought us socialized, one pocket medical care, with equal access for all... and that's a big part of what Canada is. I don't think Doug Ford should change that. We should put our efforts into fixing what we got... and what we got is we're drowning in "administrators" and political appointments.
 
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