Excess speed vs right of way violation | GTAMotorcycle.com

Excess speed vs right of way violation

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griff2

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Jul 18, 2016 | Vote0 0
Brampton man, 51, dies in motorcycle crash on Rutherford Road
N-BM-Motorcycle_Death-1___Gallery.jpg

Fatal crash

<small style="border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 11px; color: rgb(136, 136, 136); display: block;">Photo by Pascal Marchand</small>A 51-year-old Brampton man is dead after the motorcycle he was driving crashed into a car Sunday afternoon on Rutherford Road.
<small class="color printable-newspaper" style="border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 11px; color: rgb(197, 42, 44);">Brampton Guardian
</small>By Jason Spencer

Peel police's Major Collision Bureau is still investigating a motorcycle crash that claimed the life of a 51-year-old Brampton man Sunday afternoon.

The call came into police just after 4 p.m., reporting that a motorcycle collided with a car on Rutherford Road, near Queen Street.

The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. His identity has not been released.

The driver of the car, a 22-year-old man from Mississauga, remained at the scene and is cooperating with police.

Police said it appears the driver of the car pulled over to let out a passenger at a residence on Rutherford. When the driver tried to merge back into northbound traffic, the collision with the motorcycle occurred.

At this time, police said, it does not appear to be any charges as the motorcyclist was travelling at a high rate of speed when the accident happened.

"It appears the speed of the motorcycle is a factor," said Mark Fischer, a Peel police spokesperson.

Anyone with information can call investigators at 905-453-2121, ext. 3710.

~with files from Louie Rosella

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/6772028-brampton-man-51-dies-in-motorcycle-crash-on-rutherford-road/
 
You can't travel 30km/h above a 50 or 60km/h speed limit and expect people will notice that you have the right of way...they don't expect you to be there.

A method taught in the UK that works for me:

When you are approaching someone who will be turning across your path, do a slight weave in your lane - it helps them notice you and helps them quantify your distance...otherwise you are a barely noticeable single blip of light that they may check quickly for and misjudge.
 
interesting.. so, I wonder what Kind of evidence they have to say the motorcycle was speeding? Also, if he was speeding, does he get 100% of the blame?

So early in the case to say no charges.
 
Since you bring up the UK; David Holmes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...s-last-moments-used-in-road-safety-video.html

Though he was travelling at 97mph. The courts ruled the driver which violated his right of way was still responsible

The court heard Austin admitted he had not seen Mr Holmes before making the turn, and has always accepted he should have done.

Simon Shannon, mitigating, argued special reasons for his client not to be disqualified from driving or to have his licence endorsed, relating to the speed Mr Holmes was travelling – said to be 97mph.

But district judge Peter Veits did not accept the argument and said it was Austin’s actions which caused the accident

In mitigation, Mr Shannon said his client, a dad-of-two who works in King’s Lynn, had a clean licence that he had held for 12 years and he had never had an accident

In passing sentence, the judge said no one had suggested Austin had been driving dangerously, but he had made a mistake that “sadly” too many other drivers also make, of “simply” not seeing the motorcycle.

He sentenced Austin to a 12-month community order, with 130 hours’ unpaid work, and disqualified him from driving for 18 months.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/a47_death_crash_driver_disqualified_1_3523497
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David paid with his life for his part, but in no way is speed an excuse for violating someones right of way. If you can't judge closing rate, you shouldn't be behind the wheel. Negligence is negligence, no?
 
RIP. What's considered an unreasonable speed in a case like this?
 
Sounds foolish to be blaming speed as a factor. I can't see Harley bagger going at the kinds of speed an attentive driver could miss.
 
Riceburner said:
Sounds foolish to be blaming speed as a factor. I can't see Harley bagger going at the kinds of speed an attentive driver could miss.
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Around a bend? Depending on how high the speed was, a bend wouldn't leave much if any opportunity for evaluating closing distance.
 
Even worse, how fast can a bagger be going round a bend. Possibly it wasn't going more than any other traffic normally does and the car driver was not paying enough attention or couldn't see a clear enough distance and still pulled out? Either way until it's investigated you can't blame either scenario.
 
Riceburner said:
Even worse, how fast can a bagger be going round a bend. Possibly it wasn't going more than any other traffic normally does and the car driver was not paying enough attention or couldn't see a clear enough distance and still pulled out? Either way until it's investigated you can't blame either scenario.
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Investigators are apparently still wrapping up loose ends, but they still seem confident enough to say that "At this time, police said, it does not appear to be any charges as the motorcyclist was travelling at a high rate of speed when the accident happened."

That suggests both witness and crash scene analysis support the an excess speed scenario. We're not talking about a hairpin or tight esses. A bagger can still go pretty quick around a bend, and a bend is enough to restrict sightlines.
 
I guess anyone who might be involved in collision with a motorcycle can blame speed as a factor ... lawyers could turn this into very ugly blame game.
 
Hindsight observations and other thoughts:

RIP rider.

That civic has a heavy tint and a blue license plate cover. Two indicators that would increase the threat level evaluation in my spidey sense.

Looks like the side airbags deployed. U-turn impact? Or turn-out from a driveway?

Cultural influences may be at play. My personal observation of traffic culture in India is that it's typical for a driver to turn into another street and expect other traffic to slow/avoid. Same for trucks to change lanes - upcoming cars should 'blow horn' when passing as the truck driver will change lanes without checking their mirror. Was this a factor?

If you can't see a street glide coming, you wouldn't have seen another car coming. Acceleration by the bike would've also resulted in the headlights being a little brighter?

"high rate of speed" BS grammar IMHO. When I'm at the front at a red light, on green I usually accelerate fast then upshift several gears at once - to get ahead of "the pack" of cars that likes to drive in a clump. I may still be at the speed limit, but witnesses may call this a 'high rate of speed'.

Did the civic have tinted front side windows? Could be another 'factor'
 
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The TV coverage I saw had all the local residents who made it in front of the camera complaining about how speed was a problem on the street (and honestly, what street is it NOT a problem on?), but nobody specifically said that the motorcycle was an offender, as seems to be confirmed now.

This seems to me to be a case of someone simply not confirming the path was clear before pulling out into the street. It doesn't look like a sideswipe as would be suggestive of the "I just dropped someone off and was pulling back into traffic" story, however - it sure looks like a broadside T-bone to me. Car driver pulled a U-turn perhaps without ensuring the path was clear?

Either way, RIP rider..but I think the car driver is gonna find himself 100% at fault in this one.
 
If it was a motorcycle cop I bet charges would be laid.

Also, damage to both vehicles doesn't immediately suggest a "high" rate of speed on the part of the bike; the bike isn't a fragmented hulk (i.e. it looks largely intact), both vehicles stopped together and the car appears to have suffered sheetmetal damage only.

I agree with PP: The orientation of the Honda is telling: Notice the yellow line and the fact that the Civic looks to be nearly perpendicular to it. That and the orientation of the front wheels suggests a U-turn, not a "merge" back into traffic. From what I see here the driver looks to be 100% at fault.
 
I suspect right-of-way collisions are an hourly occurrence in Brampton. This one only notable due to a the death of the motorcyclist.
 
PrivatePilot said:
The TV coverage I saw had all the local residents who made it in front of the camera complaining about how speed was a problem on the street (and honestly, what street is it NOT a problem on?), but nobody specifically said that the motorcycle was an offender, as seems to be confirmed now.

This seems to me to be a case of someone simply not confirming the path was clear before pulling out into the street. It doesn't look like a sideswipe as would be suggestive of the "I just dropped someone off and was pulling back into traffic" story, however - it sure looks like a broadside T-bone to me. Car driver pulled a U-turn perhaps without ensuring the path was clear?

Either way, RIP rider..but I think the car driver is gonna find himself 100% at fault in this one.
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CBC article - eyewitness said the car was backing out of a driveway.
 
To clarify: I'm not saying it should be legally the rider's fault simply because of speed - but legal doesn't matter if you're dead...don't speed excessively inside city limits and expect right of way to save you.

I mean, we don't know, maybe the guy wasn't speeding at all and this story is full of !@#$, either way it's sad.
 
griff2 said:
Investigators are apparently still wrapping up loose ends, but they still seem confident enough to say that "At this time, police said, it does not appear to be any charges as the motorcyclist was travelling at a high rate of speed when the accident happened."

That suggests both witness and crash scene analysis support the an excess speed scenario. We're not talking about a hairpin or tight esses. A bagger can still go pretty quick around a bend, and a bend is enough to restrict sightlines.
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Which means it's no place to pull over to let someone out, nor from the looks of the scene, attempt a sharp maneuver into a live lane. I.E. a U-TURN which this sure looks like.

oh and that bend is a long way from the crash site (not much of a bend either). Doesn't jive bud.. sorry. As Blackfin said, if this is a police bike, the narrative would be much different.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7037...6Sn7XTf2CjTqS-9j9LUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
 
Blackfin said:
If it was a motorcycle cop I bet charges would be laid.

Also, damage to both vehicles doesn't immediately suggest a "high" rate of speed on the part of the bike; the bike isn't a fragmented hulk (i.e. it looks largely intact), both vehicles stopped together and the car appears to have suffered sheetmetal damage only.

I agree with PP: The orientation of the Honda is telling: Notice the yellow line and the fact that the Civic looks to be nearly perpendicular to it. That and the orientation of the front wheels suggests a U-turn, not a "merge" back into traffic. From what I see here the driver looks to be 100% at fault.
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Different pic. Heavy bike may already have scrubbed off speed before impact, and skid marks if present on the road would give some indication of length of braking before impact which in turn can provide indication of speed. Look at where the impact was and the pattern. Car wheels don't appear to have much turn on them. It doesn't look like a typical full-on t-bone arising from u-turn.

image.jpg
 
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FLSTC said:
I suspect right-of-way collisions are an hourly occurrence in Brampton. This one only notable due to a the death of the motorcyclist.
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Why would a police spokesperson say that speed was a factor and that no charges are expected in this case? Do you think Peel Police have a policy to look the other way and not charge car drivers when a rider is killed "just because" in what would otherwise be an obvious right of way collision?
 
That's 800lbs of bike there. If the Honda was mostly stationary, then this does not look like a high speed collision. Could've braked before impact...
 
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