ethanol and effects on engine... | GTAMotorcycle.com

ethanol and effects on engine...

M

moono

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Filled the tank with petro canada ultra94 to realize its high ethanol content....

91 shell is sufficient but wanted to see if there was a difference with the 94 then realized there are alot of people who advise against it due to ethanol.

Any idea on possible issues I may have from this??

Should I ride it out to empty or just drain it out before doing further riding?

Cheers
 
I used to put the 94 in my bike until I realized it had so much ethanol in it. My bike still runs great, hasn't exploded. Just avoid it in the future.
 
Little bit of ethanol (10%) is industry average won't really hurt your bike. Wouldn't use E85 though. Shell is the only fuel supplier that I know of that doesn't use ethanol in its premium fuel. Personally running premium pump fuel with ethanol isn't a big problem to worry about.


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There is a significant amount of misconception regarding gasoline. Shell 91 will likely run better for 2 reasons.

1.) Most believe (call it successful marketing) that 94 fuel has more power than 91 and 91 has more than 87. As though some gas is has more energy in it than other gas. This is not true (for pump gas). Premium fuel has combustion inhibitors that allow the fuel to undergo higher compression before detonation. Aka the "pinging" sound people talk about. All modern fuel injected engines will have knock sensors that retard the ignition timing to prevent detonation with lower-than-required octane fuel. Ideally you actually want the lowest octane (most easily combustible) fuel that does not detonate, with no ethanol (ethanol has less energy density). In other words, higher octane does not equal more power. In canada, in an 08 1000RR I ran 87 on the street and V-power 91 at the track (high heat, high rpm), never had an issue, 60,000 km so far. In the US, premium only, the 87 seems lower grade than ours, very noticeable in performance.

2.) No-ethanol does mean a bit more power due to energy density, but that has nothing to do with 94 vs. 91 octane. Unless its a built/race motor, no one makes street motors that require 94 octane, its a waste of money + it has ethanol.

Side note, when storing the bike for winter use ethanol-free fuel for the seals/separation.
 
Last edited:
smergy said:
There is a significant amount of misconception regarding gasoline. Shell 91 will likely run better for 2 reasons.

1.) Most believe (call it successful marketing) that 94 fuel has more power than 91 and 91 has more than 87. As though some gas is has more energy in it than other gas. This is not true (for pump gas). Premium fuel has combustion inhibitors that allow the fuel to undergo higher compression before detonation. Aka the "pinging" sound people talk about. All modern fuel injected engines will have knock sensors that RETARD the ignition timing to prevent detonation with lower-than-required octane fuel. Ideally you actually want the lowest octane (most easily combustible) fuel that does not detonate, with no ethanol (ethanol has less energy density). In other words, higher octane does not equal more power. In canada, in an 08 1000RR I ran 87 on the street and V-power 91 at the track (high heat, high rpm), never had an issue, 60,000 km so far. In the US, premium only, the 87 seems lower grade than ours, very noticeable in performance.

2.) No-ethanol does mean a bit more power due to energy density, but that has nothing to do with 94 vs. 91 octane. Unless its a built/race motor, no one makes street motors that require 94 octane, its a waste of money + it has ethanol.

Side note, when storing the bike for winter use ethanol-free fuel for the seals/separation.
Click to expand...
Fixed it for ya'
 
So here's what I learned about ethanol in school...
1) it's hygroscopic (it likes water) so it will absorb water from the atmosphere and transport it through your engine which can cause rust and corrosion when you park it over the winter.
2) it's a an alcohol so it dries out rubber bits like fuel lines / fuel pump? ... and for carburated bikes it's especially bad for floats, diaphragms and other seals.

there's my nickel of wisdom for the day,

- T -
 
corrected, thanks
 
on most modern engines its not much of a problem, it shouldnt sit over the winter if you have a fuel injected bike with the pump in the tank, its hard on seals and such. On of the areas its been documented as a REAL problem is any of the bikes with plastic bladder tanks (ducati) or fiberglass fuel tanks. In the marine industry its been linked to hundreds of blown engines due to ethanol dissolving the resins in inboard tanks and creating a goo that detonates engines. Its caused some very odd issues with Audi cars.
 
crankcall said:
On of the areas its been documented as a REAL problem is any of the bikes with plastic bladder tanks (ducati) or fiberglass fuel tanks.
Click to expand...

Or KTM, which is why I make a point to fill with V-Power whenever I can... ESPECIALLY in the fall when I don't know when my last ride will be.
 
engines that need 87 octane do not need 91 octane...you will get no measurable gains!
 
Debatable. You could do the math. 9/10 gasoline and 1/10 ethanol at 87 vs 10/10 of gasoline only at 91. The energy density of that 1/10 fraction is less than that of gasoline but is it less or more than giving the octane that it might not "need"?
 
Unless you have an old boat, in the service manual it gives you two timing options depending on if you run 89 or 91 octane (obviously carbed v6's and v8's, not new injected ones)

Ethanol has no positive effects on your engine only negative ones, avoid it as much as possible. I have seen tons of gummed up carbs from fuel that was sitting for only a few months (green slime + flakey crust).
 
Sunspark said:
Debatable. You could do the math. 9/10 gasoline and 1/10 ethanol at 87 vs 10/10 of gasoline only at 91. The energy density of that 1/10 fraction is less than that of gasoline but is it less or more than giving the octane that it might not "need"?
Click to expand...

faster/slower rate of combustion is the 'necessary' difference, not energy density.
 
Wow, I'm surprised no one mentioned this. Canadian Tire has ethanol-free premium. The sticker that says "may contain up to 10% ethanol" is directly between regular and mid-grade for a reason.
 
Tam905 said:
So here's what I learned about ethanol in school...
1) it's hygroscopic (it likes water) so it will absorb water from the atmosphere and transport it through your engine which can cause rust and corrosion when you park it over the winter.
2) it's a an alcohol so it dries out rubber bits like fuel lines / fuel pump? ... and for carburated bikes it's especially bad for floats, diaphragms and other seals.

there's my nickel of wisdom for the day,

- T -
Click to expand...

Two winters ago I stored my bike with a full tank and stabilizer. Lo and behold it would not start in the spring. Empty tank etc and... Well, what a mess to sort out before I could even ride last spring. Used VPower last fall and stabilizer. Bike started this spring with minimal headaches. No more ethanol in my old bike (1981).
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