Ducati single-cylinder? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Ducati single-cylinder?

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Interesting!

If they can bring the weight down below 400 lbs, this would be a serious competitor to KTM's 690 platform and would be more off-road oriented than their over-weight DesertX.
 
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My ass hurts from looking at the seat.
 
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You can get pretty close to one of those today with a KTM powerplant.
Sorry NO
Ever seen the motor in that super-mono? Never been anything like it before or after (not really true. Suzuki made one like it, that didn't work as well).
A single with two rods.
Your KTM may make the same power but can't put it to the ground like the Duc.
 
We got some duc historians in here
 
That's pretty low - patenting an idea someone else already came up with. Reminds me of the Candy Crush fiasco and similar patent trolling.
I doubt the Suzuki patents are based on the fundamental design, it’s probably an improvement.

The idea is old, some old diesels used extra conrods for balance, early BMW f800s were built using the extra rod too.
 
I doubt the Suzuki patents are based on the fundamental design, it’s probably an improvement.

The idea is old, some old diesels used extra conrods for balance, early BMW f800s were built using the extra rod too.
Do you know of another single four stroke that will do 11,000 rpm?
I don't.
That Duc motor is special. (The super mono motor, this new one is nothing special that I can see)
 
Do you know of another single four stroke that will do 11,000 rpm?
I don't.
That Duc motor is special. (The super mono motor, this new one is nothing special that I can see)
The secret to high RPM is counterbalancing the rotating mass. You can hit those high RPM ranges with a counterbalance shaft or the extra conrod -- I think the counterbalance shaft robs a bit of power, but gives back in dependability and manufacturing costs. I'm pretty sure Honda and Yamaha's latest singles (125 to 300cc) are running 11,000 RPM redlines.

The DUC motor was built to go racing, specifically to fit into the European Supermono800 class. It is a special motor.
 
Is there any indication that the new engine bears any resemblance tech-wise to the super mono? I would think that Ducati would be making an engine to compete with the KTM's as opposed to be another high dollar limited edition collectable.
 
Is there any indication that the new engine bears any resemblance tech-wise to the super mono?
None what so ever.
The Duc supermono was built to mimic the power output of their "L" twin, the 888 in particular. If you study engine output you will find the old "L" twins were magic. Nothing puts power to the ground like that motor (it has to do with the power pulses and the time the tire needs to recover after it deflects from the power pulse created when the piston fires). The only motors that comes close is a single or a two stroke twin.
... but this was all tied to the tires of the time and how you had to ride those tires. To be FAST you slid the bike into the corner, gathered it back up at apex and slid it out... like how Gilles Villeneuve used to drive his F1 car.
Tires got better and we don't ride like that anymore... I do, but I like sliding around.
 
Is there any indication that the new engine bears any resemblance tech-wise to the super mono? I would think that Ducati would be making an engine to compete with the KTM's as opposed to be another high dollar limited edition collectable.
I doubt they are using a second rod. A counterbalance shaft is cheaper, easier, and uses fewer moving parts.

Anyone know how to compare the parasitic loss of a counterbalance shaft vs a second rod on a thumper?
 
Anyone know how to compare the parasitic loss of a counterbalance shaft vs a second rod on a thumper?
Uhmmmm maybe a DYNO?

But the Duc's advantage is NOT power, but how the power is put to the ground, which cannot be measured on a dyno. the only REAL way to measure it's effectiveness is on the race track, where it is head and shoulders above anything else out there. They don't make MORE POWER, they make the power more tractable, makes the bike easier to ride.
Sorry Mike. It's kinda obvious you don't appreciate how special the Ducati NCR motors were, but it was why a 85 hp 900SS could keep up with or beat a 140 hp Honda of the day, or why a 500cc two stroke can pace or beat a 1000cc four stroke. The magic of the Ducati twin is they have convinced the "L" twin bike it was a single
Let's try this: A crankshaft does not rotate at a constant speed, it speeds up as the piston goes down, maximum speed when the crank pin is at 90 degrees, slowest just before TDC and BDC, where it STOPS, eats a whole bunch of inertia, then slowly starts to speed up again. Every time it hits TDC or BDC it stops the tire and the tire deforms and loses traction and the tire slides a bit. On a 4 stroke I4 this happens twice for every crankshaft rotation, a triple 1.5 times, a twin once and a single every other crankshaft rotation.
A counterbalance shaft stores inertia, it pulls inertia off the crank at a more or less constant rate and throws that inertia when the crank pin is at 90 degrees, and the crank reacts like it got another power pulse, it BANG speeds up, like if it had another piston firing 90 degrees opposed.
The Super mono pulls inertia off the crank, but in a MUCH smoother pull. When the pin is at 10 degrees ATDC the fake rod is pulling next to nothing, and it ramps up to pulling it's maximum at 90 degrees, then tapering off to next to nothing at just before BDC. The "fake" rod is pulling inertia at a rate that is 90 degrees opposed to the real rod. That rate of inertia goes up and down as the crank rotates, It smooths out the power pulse, being easier on the tire.
If you were to graph the power at the output shaft, the line would be very "peaky". There is no single motor that has a smoother power/time graph. A single with a counter balance would have exactly the same peaky line as a twin. A super mono line looks more like a sine wave.
The "new" 270 degree twins try to do the same thing BUT use another piston. I put NEW in quotes cuz there's nothing new about this. We've been "phasing" twins as long as I can remember and this is what a "big bang" motor is all about. The R1 "big bang" motor came about because there were a couple of guys racing BSB that "phased" their R1s and were spanking the field... so they banned the motors. NEXT year Yamaha had a "big bang" R1
TL/DR: A DUC super mono will spin/slide the tire less on corner entry and exit, compared to any other design we have so far, all things being equal
 

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