disclosure and radar gun info | GTAMotorcycle.com

disclosure and radar gun info

ajaxguy

ajaxguy

Well-known member
Sorry ahead of time as I know there are very similar posts but I cant seem to find the answer for mine.

Anyways, I have court in June for a 26 over ticker I got in mississauga back in december. I receieved disclosure already and it looks like this cop is tough. He sent me the manual for the radar gun he was using ( speedlaser) but He did not sent me his calibration records. I read through the manual and its not just a on button calibration, its actually a process. I am going to re-request disclosure and ask for the calibration logs, but do you think that its a pretty credible defense if he doesnt provide that?

Also, he said it was clear ( as in day) but it was about 10 mins before sunrise and stil was a little dark, that should be a factor as well.
 
The RADAR unit must be calibrated. Yes, you want the records; at least a statement that the unit was properly calibrated, in his notes.

"Clear" means no precipitation/fog. It doesn't mean daylight.
 
Thanks for the response Rob, i am going to request some typed notes of the officers because it is hard to read, that may be the calibration but i dont think so. Also, I will indicate again i need any calibration logs from that morning to ensure that the unit was in optimal working order.
 
Don't forget to get the cal log after, if it failed after then everything done up to that point is invalid
 
what do you mean call log? Like showing if it had failed at all before that?
 
ajaxguy said:
what do you mean call log? Like showing if it had failed at all before that?
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He is referring to the unit being tested after the offence. Unit should have been tested prior to and at soe point after. Some retest after each offence, while others will retest at the end of shift.

And as stated clear is weather conditions, not lighting conditions.
 
As stated in another post though, people have told me that those little numbers on my ticket are his testing procedure for the unit. That is not really a log however, but I did request a log in the disclosure request twice but still no cal logs. Should I ask the JP at the court date that i cannot proceed as I have not received the requested info in regards to the cal log?
 
ajaxguy said:
As stated in another post though, people have told me that those little numbers on my ticket are his testing procedure for the unit. That is not really a log however, but I did request a log in the disclosure request twice but still no cal logs. Should I ask the JP at the court date that i cannot proceed as I have not received the requested info in regards to the cal log?
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You should make every reasonable effort to acquire the information prior to trial. Ask for a transcribed copy of those note, if you haven't already. If the disclosure is meaningless to you, then it's useless.
 
The trial date is exactly a week away :(

Rob MacLennan said:
You should make every reasonable effort to acquire the information prior to trial. Ask for a transcribed copy of those note, if you haven't already. If the disclosure is meaningless to you, then it's useless.
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ajaxguy said:
The trial date is exactly a week away :(
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So you prepare for trial anyway, but also submit a request for transcription TODAY. When you go to trial you first see if the officer hasn't shown up. If he hasn't you let trial proceed, because they won't be able to provide evidence. That means the charge should be dropped. If not, you move to have it dropped. If the cop does show up you request a new date stating that the disclosure was illegible, and that you have requested the transcribed notes as disclosure. Be ready to provide proof of the illegibility of the notes and your request for transcription. If a new date is granted you then have another shot at the officer not showing, in addition to having the proper notes to be able to plan your defence. If it's denied then you have prepared as best you can, with the information that you have already received. You might even have grounds for an appeal, based on your requests that are on record, if you're convicted.
 
First off thanks for the info Rob , this is great! i did get in the second request the typed notes of the officers, So I am assuming that would already be the transcription right?

Rob MacLennan said:
So you prepare for trial anyway, but also submit a request for transcription TODAY. When you go to trial you first see if the officer hasn't shown up. If he hasn't you let trial proceed, because they won't be able to provide evidence. That means the charge should be dropped. If not, you move to have it dropped. If the cop does show up you request a new date stating that the disclosure was illegible, and that you have requested the transcribed notes as disclosure. Be ready to provide proof of the illegibility of the notes and your request for transcription. If a new date is granted you then have another shot at the officer not showing, in addition to having the proper notes to be able to plan your defence. If it's denied then you have prepared as best you can, with the information that you have already received. You might even have grounds for an appeal, based on your requests that are on record, if you're convicted.
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ajaxguy said:
First off thanks for the info Rob , this is great! i did get in the second request the typed notes of the officers, So I am assuming that would already be the transcription right?
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If you got typed notes, then that is the transcription. If the typed noted don't mean anything to you, then you need to have them explained in plain English; no abbreviations or short forms.
 
will do! I am going over all my stuff tonight, have to double check a couple things and then request anything i dont have already.

GateKeeper said:
subscribed to this one, I want to see how this turns out.....keep us posted on the outcome

.
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FYI: You'll need a better excuse than "I couldn't read/understand the notes" if you want an adjournment. That's a poor way to use the court's resources by making them think you're ready for trial and then suddenly trying to get an adjournment.

If you want an adjournment, talk to the prosecutor right form the start rather than wait for trial and tell them last minute. You might be left SOL. Not being ready is no excuse. BTW... the notes don't have to be translated to you prior. You're information is the same as the prosecutor's. If you want to understand the notes, you'll have to do it by 1) obtaining legal counsel or 2) question the officer when he's on the stand.

Having them explained "in plain English" is no grounds for appeal or adjournment and the officer will not talk to you off record. If you do want to adjourn, you're best bet is to tell them you have not been able to find a legal representative to suit your needs yet. But if you use that, you better show up with one next time.
 
Mr.Azim said:
FYI: You'll need a better excuse than "I couldn't read/understand the notes" if you want an adjournment. That's a poor way to use the court's resources by making them think you're ready for trial and then suddenly trying to get an adjournment.

If you want an adjournment, talk to the prosecutor right form the start rather than wait for trial and tell them last minute. You might be left SOL. Not being ready is no excuse. BTW... the notes don't have to be translated to you prior. You're information is the same as the prosecutor's. If you want to understand the notes, you'll have to do it by 1) obtaining legal counsel or 2) question the officer when he's on the stand.

Having them explained "in plain English" is no grounds for appeal or adjournment and the officer will not talk to you off record. If you do want to adjourn, you're best bet is to tell them you have not been able to find a legal representative to suit your needs yet. But if you use that, you better show up with one next time.
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That's why I recommended making the disclosure request, prior to going to court. It's certainly no guarantee of obtaining an adjournment but if you show up at trial, without at least having made a best effort to obtain it, you're almost certainly not going to get one. If you show that you're going through the appropriate hoops in a way that respects the process, you're far more likely to be taken seriously.

It's not just a matter of "plain English." It's one of having notes that have a chance of being understood. Lots of officers use non standard short forms, that even a Crown or JP wouldn't understand. There's also requesting a "will say", that as others have said elsewhere is a good idea, and tends to put the notes in context.
 
Sorry for the delay... so my ticket did have the time he tested it. It was "tested" at 7:06 am and my ticket was written at 7:19am. So the angle I am going to work as it is all I have right now, is what does his test consist of? I know it cant be the full test as I read the manual and it is pretty thorough, so he couldn't have tested , tagged and written my ticket all in under 20 mins.
So I am assuming he just did the basic startup test which may suffice for this purpose, but if so I still need to know when the unit was calibrated last and why did I not get the CAL logs sent to me?
 
This is a very interesting thread considering I just got a 26 over ticket a couple of weeks ago by the Peel police, so thanks ajaxguy for asking the questions and to the others for answering them.

When I got my ticket, there were cars all around me. I was in the middle lane with cars behind me, beside me, and ahead of me. Considering the size of a bike compared to a car, is it possible to argue reasonable doubt that the police detected another vehicle's speed rather than mine?

I will also ask for the calibration logs of the detector and see if that angle is worth pursuing.
 
really anything is worth pursuing... any chance of making the cops evidence appear somewhat less credible then he presents is worth a shot. I firgure if I am gonna take a plea and get charged and have it on my record anyways, I might as well try and fight it and worst case make the cop work for the ticket.

Diesel said:
This is a very interesting thread considering I just got a 26 over ticket a couple of weeks ago by the Peel police, so thanks ajaxguy for asking the questions and to the others for answering them.

When I got my ticket, there were cars all around me. I was in the middle lane with cars behind me, beside me, and ahead of me. Considering the size of a bike compared to a car, is it possible to argue reasonable doubt that the police detected another vehicle's speed rather than mine?

I will also ask for the calibration logs of the detector and see if that angle is worth pursuing.
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