Diagnostic help anyone?

B

B-Rye

Active member
Hey guys, - Located in Thornhill in the area of John and Bayview **South of 407/North of Steeles**

Not many of you know who I am as I do not ride in groups or frequent this site much but since purchasing my 2010 R1 in April of 2015 (prior to that I was riding an '06 636 which I sold and kinda wish I hadn't now with this small headache) I have come into some start-up issues and havent been able to diagnose it due to being away and working out of town thus resulting to not being able to ride or solve the start-up issue.

What I have come into issue with is when and if the bike does crank over and warms up it seems and rides fine but after toggling the kill switch and letting it rest/cool down it has the start up issue again... Sometimes it will take 3-5 cranks for it to come to life and that is also while throttling for it to kick in and wake up from its slumber.

I feel that perhaps it could be a stator issue or could even be a simple fix of perhaps the rectifier but I am not a skilled mechanic to know of these things and have been trying to figure it out by reading through forums and YouTube videos.

I am in the Thornhill region and currently have a 2010 YZF-R1 which has the TRC Yoshi pipes on it but as it has issues both starting and holding a charge to the battery I feel maybe its a stator issue... hopefully someone can chime in with what to do, how to test the issue and figure out the problem...?


*** When I bought the bike it started fine and had no issues, cranked over and was good.. few days later battery seemed weak so I put it on a trickle and it still seemed weak and so I went out and bought a new battery that same month.. The battery is new from 2015 and so I am ruling out that being the cause of why it starts irregularly ***

If anyone is able to give me feedback or even in the area and has some mechanical skill with diagnosing the issue you're welcome to comeby and give me some advice and maybe help me out.. I know the season is pretty much done but I want her ready and set for 2016.

Any questions can be asked and I appreciate any feedback and advice guys.

-Brian
 
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Like i said, it needs a general going through a new tune up - see what it does then.

The starting issue - its prob lean, and if you dump some fuel into it - it starts up.

The charging issue - stator or rectifier. or the connecting plugs.

Bring it over - it can be sorted out.
 
frekeyguy said:
Like i said, it needs a general going through a new tune up - see what it does then.

The starting issue - its prob lean, and if you dump some fuel into it - it starts up.

The charging issue - stator or rectifier. or the connecting plugs.

Bring it over - it can be sorted out.
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Trying to save on the cost of someone else doing the work for me and I just wanna be practical and do it on my own..
I am not saying I wouldn't prefer you to do the job for me but as the summer has passed and I am un-employed again I do have plenty of time on my hands now..

I just wanna do it myself and get the learning experience but I wouldn't mind someone to come poke around the bike and tell me what he/she believes the issue to be before buying any parts and replacing it..

Seems this is a pretty dead thread in which wont get much attention... maybe one day...
 
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B-Rye said:
Trying to save on the cost of someone else doing the work for me and I just wanna be practical and do it on my own..
I am not saying I wouldn't prefer you to do the job for me but as the summer has passed and I am un-employed again I do have plenty of time on my hands now..

I just wanna do it myself and get the learning experience but I wouldn't mind someone to come poke around the bike and tell me what he/she believes the issue to be before buying any parts and replacing it..

Seems this is a pretty dead thread in which wont get much attention... maybe one day...
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The bike is due in for a tune up. if you want to learn to do it youreslf, put a set of plugs in it and clean out the air box / filter and see how it goes.

Check out the fuel pump to make sure its priming well and has a good flow rate going.

Load test the battery to ensure it is strong enough, and test the charging system to ensure it is charging well enough. Check for parasitic draws as well.

matthew said:
test the r/r and see what the output voltage is
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Ya.. I need to find where my Multi-Meter is to do any testing or ask someone in the area who has one to let me burrow one of theirs...

Been searching all over the garage but no luck... Can't remember who has it.. Located the Rectifier but can't do anything without the meter... Boooo!
 
Does your bike start off in A mode after you start it, or STD?

I can lend you an ECU (no charge) with a higher idle (better charging, better oil pressure) and it inputs a bit of throttle automatically (really helps the 09+ crossplane crank over) when starting. Should run flawless until you get your issue figured out. I've had a lot of people contact me with the same issue.

1. Make sure the battery is good and strong. You replaced it last year, with what brand, BikeMaster or KMG? They won't live long in a R1. I recommend a lithium based battery if it needs to be replaced (Shorai, etc.), get the biggest one you can stuff in there (check R1 forum).
2. Build a manometer and check your throttle body syncs AT IDLE.

Let me know if you want to try the ECU.
 
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So I was looking through youTube Videos about hard starts and what not for the 2010 R1... This is exactly my issue that goes on also..

I still do not have a Multi-Meter but anyone wanna give suggestions what they think is happening to this guys bike as it seems to also be happening with mine...

1st video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsxob9CVBwA

If I shut the bike off it goes through the same deal just like he is having in the video...

2nd video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmc5LP9uEJw
 
Reading up on the issue, and watching youtube videos is all fine and dandy, but until you actually test the components on your bike, you will have no idea on what your actual problem is or where it lies, and you will be no further ahead in solving the problem

I think right now you can get a multimeter at Canadian Tire for 14.99, and it will at least get you going, I understand your not working but if your going to work on or troubleshoot issues on your own bike you will need some tools to do so

best of luck
 
GateKeeper said:
I think right now you can get a multimeter at Canadian Tire for 14.99
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He borrowed a friends. Pretty freaky results.

The number one problem: Bike has an alarm (with remote pager). After he replaced the battery the alarm has killed it at least once, so dead that it wouldn't even light up the gauges or do more than just click when he tried to start it. The battery is of unknown quality.

Number two problem: The battery is very weak. Rests around 12.3v after being charged and drops to under 9 volts when cranking over. This causes the ECU to reboot, so even if it's started to fire it'll die and won't start again until you turn the key off and back on. He said that when the battery is dead and he plugs it into his battery tender it reports fully charged pretty quickly, so for sure bad battery.

Even with the bike running it was only putting out 13.6 volts at 4000rpm but for the moment I'll blame that on the bad battery and he'll need to re-test it after the new battery is installed.

I tried flashing the ECU to put lots more throttle during starting but because the ECU isn't getting enough power during cranking it didn't help at all (other than give it an awesome idle growl when it does start).

The crunchy noise you hear when you're starting the bike after it's been sitting for a long time is the sound of it running without oil. The oil is very low in the sight glass and it sounds like the anti drainback valve in the oil filter has failed.

I've never seen an ECU damaged so badly yet still work properly (big crack right down the middle of it, the entire length, right through the casing). The bike has obviously been crashed heavily on the left side, stupid place for Yamaha to put the ECU so exposed like that. If I had to guess I would say the HID ballast used to be mounted on top of the ECU and that's how it cracked so perfectly down the middle when it was laid down. I'll keep an eye out for a great deal on a 09-11 R1 ECU and let you know when I find one (even if USA ECU I can convert to Canadian which your bike is).

Suggestions:

1. Totally remove the alarm system and install a new lithium battery (Shorai LFX19A4-BS12 from Glen at Flying Squirrel). Do NOT accept any smaller model batteries, that one is identical in size to your stock battery but puts out 285 cold cranking amps (CCA) versus the OEM Yuasa’s 190 (who knows what your brand of battery is supposed to do new). It weighs a mind blowing 4.7 pounds less than your OEM battery! Should turn over like a champ with that installed and the lithium batteries don't get nearly as much voltage drop during starting. Do NOT charge it before storing it indoors for the winter and do NOT trickle charge it over the winter. ONLY charge it before you install it in the bike in the spring (it probably won't need it anyway). They won't work well when they are cold so if you plan on riding it in the fall then maybe keep the battery indoors and put it in the bike when you need to use it. If the battery does get cold and you need to start the bike you do THE OPPOSITE of what you do with a lead battery, you keep it cranking and cranking for a good 15 seconds, let it rest for 10 seconds, crank it again for 15 seconds, let it rest for 10 seconds, then it'll fire right up. Super freaky.

2. Do the stator/rectifier voltage test (idle, 4000rpm, etc.) as outlined in the service manual (after replacing the battery) and let us know the results. Driving the bike with a dead battery and making the bike try to recharge it could have damaged your stator or rectifier.

3. Replace the oil filter with an OEM filter and do an oil change and keep it at the top of the sight glass from now on :)

4. Run the bike on some almost straight seafoam to give the injectors a clean. I run the bike down until the fuel light comes on (or siphon the fuel from the tank), pour in two entire cans of seafoam then go for a rip. It won't want to idle so keep the revs up at lights and it might smoke a little, and the smoke really burns your eyes, so avoid doing this in heavy traffic. Carry a small gas can in a backpack (with Shell 91 in it) so when you run it right out of gas you can dump it in to get to the nearest Shell and fill her back up with 91 (always only use Shell 91 in your bike). Do NOT put the seafoam in your oil or suck it up your vacuum lines like the directions say to do.

5. To stop your right calf from getting cooked in the summertime install a Y pipe to eliminate your catalytic converter (gived you better performance and makes your exhaust quite a bit louder too), I recommend Dan-Moto but there are tons of other brands that would work (akrapovic, M4, etc.): https://www.dan-moto.com/DM_INT/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=142_143&products_id=579

6. For oil I recommend Amsoil MCF. Use the dealer locator with your postal code and start calling dealers top to bottom. The first one that answers the phone AND has MCF IN STOCK then go pick it up. http://www.amsoil.com/locator/map.aspx
Another option would be Motul 5100 (semi synthetic, love the way the R1 shifts when running that) or 7100 full synthetic (available from your favourite motorcycle dealer).

7. For the air filter I recommend a BMC Street (unrestricted/no snorkel) from Tony at Bluestreak Racing. You can google "euro airbox mod R1" for another thing that works awesome with that air filter and the ECU performance flash :)

Good luck man, should be a monster when she's all tuned up :)
 
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