Dealer says car was in a front end accident!

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stangn99

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Hey guys,
My mom recently got love tapped, so we took the car to the dealer to get it fix by insurance. The dealer we took it to was not the same dealer we bought it from.

- We purchased the car from Markham Subaru about 1.5 years ago.
- Markham Subaru told us no accidents, no damage, UVIP and CarProof report was clean
- 8 months ago the plastic cover under the car fell off the highway...Dealer agreed to replace it at no charge, and told us the car was in a minor accident which is probably why it fell off. (We're already ******, as this same manager told us the car was 100% clean).

So we took it to another Subaru dealer to get the bumper touched up, and they showed us what the front end of a subaru SHOULD look like (ie/ mounts, bumper metal, fenders from inside, etc, and what ours currently looks like. The mechanic says the entire front end was in a major collision, and they are now going to check to frame to make sure it's okay.

Can we do anything about this from a legal stand point?

:-(



 
I'm not surprised that a crash goes unrecorded as people pay cash for so many repairs to avoid insurance hits. I've heard of people paying five grand cash to avoid premium increases that would cost them more than that over a couple of years. No paper trail for Carfax / Carproof to follow.

My wife works for an insurance company and says a lot of people aren't careful with numbers so if a wrong serial number was entered the feedback would lbe wrong.

There is also a delay in the paperwork so if someone traded the car soon after the crash Carproof might not have received the current info.

I don't know the legal bit or what specific damage you would sue for. What I said above fuzzies up the responsibility for the dealer / carproof.

Its been 1-1/2 years since the purchase and 8 months since the problem was noticed. Is the diminished value now an issue or do you see ongoing problems?
 
nobbie48 said:
I'm not surprised that a crash goes unrecorded as people pay cash for so many repairs to avoid insurance hits. I've heard of people paying five grand cash to avoid premium increases that would cost them more than that over a couple of years. No paper trail for Carfax / Carproof to follow.
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+1
I highly doubt there is anything you can do as if there is no paper record of an accident then the dealer can claim they never knew as they didnt take the front end off to check as the paper trail said there is no need to.
 
nobbie48 said:
I'm not surprised that a crash goes unrecorded as people pay cash for so many repairs to avoid insurance hits. I've heard of people paying five grand cash to avoid premium increases that would cost them more than that over a couple of years. No paper trail for Carfax / Carproof to follow.

My wife works for an insurance company and says a lot of people aren't careful with numbers so if a wrong serial number was entered the feedback would lbe wrong.

There is also a delay in the paperwork so if someone traded the car soon after the crash Carproof might not have received the current info.

I don't know the legal bit or what specific damage you would sue for. What I said above fuzzies up the responsibility for the dealer / carproof.

Its been 1-1/2 years since the purchase and 8 months since the problem was noticed. Is the diminished value now an issue or do you see ongoing problems?
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The diminished value is the concern. We were actually going to sell both cars and get one small fuel friendly car (downsize). The subaru gets an average of 13l / 100km in the city.

We haven't had much luck with cars lately. This one tops it all though. Very frustrated.
 
At this point I think it's a little too late to take legal action.
Contact OMVIC, tell them your situation and they will tell you the best way to go about it.
 
stangn99 said:
The diminished value is the concern. We were actually going to sell both cars and get one small fuel friendly car (downsize). The subaru gets an average of 13l / 100km in the city.

We haven't had much luck with cars lately. This one tops it all though. Very frustrated.
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Here's where you juggle the costs of legal action, your own ethics, and taking the hit. Has anyone given you the amount of the diminished value?
 
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REDBALLS said:
Contact OMVIC ignorance is not a defense for registered dealer's.
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+1 get them involved and they will guid you thru the steps to get it resolved. Omvic is great to deal with they almost always side with the customer.
 
2live&ride said:
At this point I think it's a little too late to take legal action.
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Not necessarily. The Limitations Act stipulates two years in most cases, and this is only at month 18 away from the sale. The OP could try to get compensation from the dealer for diminished value.

The dealer will claim his hands are clean and that the clean UVIP and CarProof vehicle checks are proof of that, but the OP has still suffered a loss.

The OP may be able to argue that the repaired damage under the car should have been apparent to the dealer when the car was inspected for the safety prior to sale, and if the dealer didn't notice it at that time, it was because the dealer or his agents were negligent, particularly given that they were a Subaru dealership and should have been familiar with the car in question.

The OP will need testimony from an expert witness to successfully argue that. The question remain whether or not the second Subaru shop would be willing to do that.

The OP has nothing to lose by trying to get something from the selling dealer using the threat of a small claims action as the heavy stick.
 
Dealer probably got the car as a trade in, if the dealer is smart they would have been a signature with the previous owner stating that the car had no prior accidents when it got traded in.
 
Happened to my buddy a couple of years ago, he crashed his car and found out it was in a serious front end accident previously and was told that the car was clean, he got a lawyer and ended up giving the damaged car back to the dealership and getting a refund less $1000. And this was after he owned the car for about 2 years. If it was a private sale you couldn't do much but with a dealer I'd definitely contact a lawyer.
 
turbodish said:
Not necessarily. The Limitations Act stipulates two years in most cases, and this is only at month 18 away from the sale. The OP could try to get compensation from the dealer for diminished value.

The dealer will claim his hands are clean and that the clean UVIP and CarProof vehicle checks are proof of that, but the OP has still suffered a loss.

The OP may be able to argue that the repaired damage under the car should have been apparent to the dealer when the car was inspected for the safety prior to sale, and if the dealer didn't notice it at that time, it was because the dealer or his agents were negligent, particularly given that they were a Subaru dealership and should have been familiar with the car in question.

The OP will need testimony from an expert witness to successfully argue that. The question remain whether or not the second Subaru shop would be willing to do that.

The OP has nothing to lose by trying to get something from the selling dealer using the threat of a small claims action as the heavy stick.
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Makes sense to a certain extent... after 18 months, the dealer could easily argue that the OP caused the accident, had it repaired without going through insurance and is now after the dealer to make a few extra $$$.
How will this stick in the courts?
 
2live&ride said:
Makes sense to a certain extent... after 18 months, the dealer could easily argue that the OP caused the accident, had it repaired without going through insurance and is now after the dealer to make a few extra $$$.
How will this stick in the courts?
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The dealer could argue that the OP caused the damage, but the OP can respond by saying that 1) they have not had a crash in the car (assuming this is true), and 2) that the defendant (dealer) has not produced any proof (CarProof, police report, bodyshop statement, etc) that the vehicle has been in a crash while in the possession of the plaintiff.

In the end, it's a civil proceeding with a much lower burden of proof. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is not needed. The trial outcome is based simply on whose story the judge finds to be more plausible.
 
turbodish said:
The dealer could argue that the OP caused the damage, but the OP can respond by saying that 1) they have not had a crash in the car (assuming this is true), and 2) that the defendant (dealer) has not produced any proof (CarProof, police report, bodyshop statement, etc) that the vehicle has been in a crash while in the possession of the plaintiff.

In the end, it's a civil proceeding with a much lower burden of proof. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is not needed. The trial outcome is based simply on whose story the judge finds to be more plausible.
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It's going to be a 'he said she said' scenario. Given the amount of time that has passed, it would be very difficult to achieve a win. Personally, I would forget about collecting from dealer and move on. Just goes to prove that you can't even trust a dealer. If you do decide to go after the dealer, try to get as much testimony from another Subaru dealership, car proof, or whatever else might help ur case.
 
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turbodish said:
Not necessarily. The Limitations Act stipulates two years in most cases, and this is only at month 18 away from the sale.
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2 years from the date of the sale.... or would it be 2 years from date of discovery of possible wrong doing?


I undrstand those car reports can be up to two years behind with their info.... you may want to try getting a report again!?
 
raginduck said:
2 years from the date of the sale.... or would it be 2 years from date of discovery of possible wrong doing?


I undrstand those car reports can be up to two years behind with their info.... you may want to try getting a report again!?
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Two years is the "normal" limit to launch a civil damages action. However, in the case of latent defects in a purchase that may not be immediately apparent, the limitation period can be extended to allow for the time needed for a hidden defect to become noticeable to a reasonable person. For some types of latent defects in home construction resulting from what can be shown to be shoddy construction, that time can extend to 6 to 7 years after the purchase date.

For a car I doubt that you would get that kind of latitude for a latent documentation defect unless you can demonstrate to a court's satisfaction that there is a systemic 2-year-plus delay in vehicle and crash reports making it into the system. It wouldn't hurt to try and get a report now though while the OP is still within the ordinary 2-year limitation period.
 
Another thought that came to mind, didn't the OP have any services done in those 18 months?
How come the accident repairs weren't noticed then?... Why is it only when the OP's car got "love tapped" that all this showed up?
If you take your vehicle to a Subaru dealer for an oil change, they should be able to identify the issue if it did exist.
Not sure what to make of the OP's story.
 
There is three requirements for disclosure that dealers have to make in regards to any accident history.

- A accident where the dollar value to fix the car exceeds $3000.
- Any structural damage, repairs or alterations.
- If the vehicle has had two or more adjacent panels other then bumper covers replaced.

Knowing that if you want to pursue some type of compensation my first course of action would be to take the car to a body shop and pay them to do an inspection of the vehicle and give you a written report of the findings. It should be a hour or two worth of labour. IMO having a competitor of the original selling dealer doing the inspection now is not the best way to go. I can almost gaurantee they will want to make the other dealer look as bad as possible especially knowing you are in the market for a new car.

The next step is to contact the selling dealer with your report showing the damage that has been previously repaired and try to work out an agreement to give you some compensation. After two years the dealer does not have to take the car back so at best you will get some money for the diminshed value. The next question is what is the diminished value. Considering you bought the car used it was likely a 3-4 year old lease return (I am guessing as your original post lacks detail) making it a 5-6 year old car now. Being in the business at this point I can tell you the difference in trade in value between it having an accident and it not will not be a HUGE difference in value, I would say somewhere in the $1000 range.

If the dealer doesn't want to play ball it is time to call OMVIC let them contact the dealer and try resolve the issue. After two years I would probably just move on and take my lumps because of the time and effort required to prove your case and I can't see the amount of compensation being worth while.
 
I think that it will be very difficult for the OP, unfortunately. The fact that he was in a small fender bender means that though there is little or no hard proof of the previous big accident, there IS proof of this small, recent accident.

btw Markham Subaru SUCKS one of the sales manager tried to bamboozle me and told my friend to get out cause she was pointing out flaws in his reasoning/pricing hahaha. Mississauga Subaru (on Mavis) is awesome though.
 
If you get your own UVIP or carfax does it show the original accident? The dealer SAID it was clean but did they ever show it to you? In short, if they gave you a verbal and it shows up on the reports you get well you have them...
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