Couldn't find a spot to mount O2 sensor for AutoTune, crazy solution :)

[toysareforboys]

So I finally got my Autotune to fix my running super rich problem

But I couldn't find a good spot to mount the O2 sensor. The manual said to make sure you mount it after all of your collector pipes join into one, but the problem is, that happens RIGHT before my muffler, so there wasn't much room to put it there

I'm thinking about putting it in one of the "2 into 1" pipes, between the exhaust mount bolt and the oil pan in the above pic, but then the O2 sensor wouldn't be sitting exactly perpendicular to the pipe, plus only sniffing the two cylinders

I really really wanted to get it "AutoTuning" for the long group ride today, so had to come up with a solution... lol. And I thought my Two Bro's was loud before... take out the baffle and put this cannon on the end, OMFG!

Works FREAKIN SWEET!!

I designed a "super fuel save" AFR target map for it, so it'll be lean in the cruising area (3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th gears, at 59% throttle and below, between 4000rpm and 8250rpm). At 60% throttle and above it throws out fuel economy for all out power

The ride today was 193km's round trip, and NO FUEL LIGHT! It usually comes on around 180, or 185 if I've been babying it, and I was riding it HARD today, right to redline so I could "fill all the cells" in my autotune, so for sure I'd be getting WAY better fuel mileage normally. By my calculations I'm getting 18% better cruise mileage and 4% better WOT mileage, win all around!

Only problem with the cruise area is a more abrupt on/off throttle, no smooth transition from deceleration to acceleration, exaggerated by my +3 rear sprocket I'm sure, but nothing I can't get used to.

I'm not able to tell what throttle position I'm actually cruising at which kinda sucks, so my buddie Mark made me up a little LED read out that'll show my throttle position, live, on the fly, so I'll better be able to narrow down my actual "cruise area". I'll get it installed soon and snaps some pics and a vid

Bike is making SO much more power now! Normally when I'm riding hard and shift into second it'll pop the front wheel up a few inches and settle back down. Today I was ripping it like normal but when I shifted into second the front wheel came up and up and up! I had to bail out of the throttle and slap it down, it surprised me so much

I'm thinking once I drive it around a bunch and get all the cells filled nicely and the trims start to level out I'll remove the AutoTune, still undecided as I'm running so lean in the cruise area I kinda want to keep the AutoTune hooked up so it can make sure it never goes too lean. Not sure if I'm going to put the baffle back in the Two Bro's though

-Jamie M.

 

[yamamonster]

Dude....nice welding job!!! but that is NOT the place to stick an O2 sensor!! There is a reason you don't see this ...it's called reversion (the air that gets sucked into the muffler/pipe when the negative pressure wave goes up the pipe) Even if its running good it will run even better if you stick it before the muffler.


my 2 cents


Joe

 

[toysareforboys]

Dude....nice welding job!!! but that is NOT the place to stick an O2 sensor!! There is a reason you don't see this ...it's called reversion (the air that gets sucked into the muffler/pipe when the negative pressure wave goes up the pipe) Even if its running good it will run even better if you stick it before the muffler.

My first design, the O2 was in the same place, but the pipe was maybe only 1/2" longer past the O2 sensor. I was getting wacked out jumpy O2 sensor readings and my buddie said what you just said, the pressure waves were pulling some fresh air back in the pipe. He took a random piece of pipe he had laying around and we kept trying different lengths by just setting it in the end of my shorty one I made, and we found that 4" past the O2 sensor was enough to stop it from messing up the readings. My final design you see above the pipe is 5" past the O2 sensor. I looked over all the logged data today, the O2 readings were very steady

I'd really like to get it mounted in front of the muffler of course, but not sure if in one of the 2 into 1 pipes would be worse than where I have it now...

Thanks for the info

-Jamie M.

 

[TheDirty]

Ah, they are torx screws on the TB, not hex. I was wrong. I did get the tool with mine, though and it looks like a hex key, but has the torx end on it, so you might have it somewhere.

 

[toysareforboys]

Ah, they are torx screws on the TB, not hex. I was wrong. I did get the tool with mine, though and it looks like a hex key, but has the torx end on it, so you might have it somewhere.

Ahhh, good to know I still got the Two Bro's box so I'll have a look see if it's in there. I think the torx bit I'm using isn't the perfect size.

-Jamie M.

 

[Brian P]

Try to get a longer piece of pipe on there, or even temporarily adapting the muffler to fit at that point. The O2 sensor is too close to the end of the pipe.

 

[JohnnyP636]

Thats a bad solution, you need to put the sensor as close to the last collector as possible...At the end of the exhaust after the exhaust can is too far down the line....It might work but its not the proper way to do it...

Ive added many 02 sensor bungs to aftermarket or stock hearders, and this is the ideal location...There is more then enough room for it to go in the proper location on your bike....

 

[HERBXX]

Im curious if it is hot enough there to keep the sensor hot enough , without drawing current from the battery all the time. Pretty sure they draw current to heat till the exhaust gets them up to temp ?

 

[Brian P]

If you look at the second photo in post #1 it appears that the bike has a 4-into-2-into-1 and the location of the sensor is right after the last junction. That's correct, but it's far too close to the end of the pipe to completely avoid the effects of air being drawn back in from the end.

It probably will draw some heating current, but I gather that this is a temporary installation until the map gets sorted out, not really a big deal. But that brings another issue ... the effect on exhaust tuning of having that open piece of pipe won't be the same as having a muffler on there. The muffler will have some damping effect that the open pipe won't.

 

[toysareforboys]

There is more then enough room for it to go in the proper location on your bike....

There is absolutely NO room to put the O2 sensor after the 2 into 1, look at the pic I posted, you can see the two collector pipes joining into one RIGHT as it goes into the muffler, the swing arm, dog bone, exhaust mount bracket, all right there as well. My only choice is in one of the 2 into 1 pipes. I confirmed it's getting identical AFR readings as when my bike was on the dyno a few weeks ago, so I know it's getting good readings.

Im curious if it is hot enough there to keep the sensor hot enough , without drawing current from the battery all the time. Pretty sure they draw current to heat till the exhaust gets them up to temp ?

It's a Bosch 6 wire wideband, it's got it's own heater, it draws power any time the key is on, all the time. It waits for 60 seconds after the bike is started, to give a chance for the O2 heater to get it up to temp, then starts taking readings, and the PCV/AutoTune waits until the engine gets up to 155f/68c before it takes the AFR readings into account

-Jamie M.

 

[JohnnyP636]

There is absolutely NO room to put the O2 sensor after the 2 into 1, look at the pic I posted, you can see the two collector pipes joining into one RIGHT as it goes into the muffler, the swing arm, dog bone, exhaust mount bracket, all right there as well. My only choice is in one of the 2 into 1 pipes. I confirmed it's getting identical AFR readings as when my bike was on the dyno a few weeks ago, so I know it's getting good readings.

It's a Bosch 6 wire wideband, it's got it's own heater, it draws power any time the key is on, all the time. It waits for 60 seconds after the bike is started, to give a chance for the O2 heater to get it up to temp, then starts taking readings, and the PCV/AutoTune waits until the engine gets up to 155f/68c before it takes the AFR readings into account

-Jamie M.

There is room for it, I have done this before....When you buy a Akrapovic full exhaust or alot of other high end full systems they already come with a bung on them...rotation does not matter, so you have lots of room to have it coming out of the right side like alot of them do...

Here is an example of an exhaust for your bike that has it coming out the side, right after the collector

Like I said I have done this a few times already, and you have tons of room on the right side between your last collector and the exhaust pipe...To each their own but if you spend half the effort you did making that flange adapter, you can put it in the correct location...And IMO it will not only work better, but look a hell of a lot better too...Unless you put it there so people can see it

 

[toysareforboys]

There is room for it, I have done this before....When you buy a Akrapovic full exhaust or alot of other high end full systems they already come with a bung on them...rotation does not matter, so you have lots of room to have it coming out of the right side like alot of them do...

Here is an example of an exhaust for your bike that has it coming out the side, right after the collector

Thanks for the info and pic. In the AutoTune installation guide it said the O2 sensor couldn't be mounted horizontal like that, it needed to be a minimum of 10 degrees from horizontal, but I guess there might be room to squeeze it in there like that.

If I decide to keep it on there permenatly I'll come pay you a visit

-Jamie M.

 

[Armen444]

Bike is making SO much more power now! Normally when I'm riding hard and shift into second it'll pop the front wheel up a few inches and settle back down. Today I was ripping it like normal but when I shifted into second the front wheel came up and up and up! I had to bail out of the throttle and slap it down, it surprised me so much


-Jamie M.

Ya! when i looked in my rear view mirror, i had a WTF is going on moment... why is there a vertical bike trailing behind me!!!

 

[toysareforboys]

Ya! when i looked in my rear view mirror, i had a WTF is going on moment... why is there a vertical bike trailing behind me!!!

I try to avoid pulling wheelies on group rides, especially when I'm not leading Sorry if I freaked you out, I'll be more prepared for it next time

-Jamie M.

 

[chiller]

hmm... perhaps just me, but wouldn't it "look" better if you just extended the elbow pipe coming from the headers to your muffler ?

 

[toysareforboys]

hmm... perhaps just me, but wouldn't it "look" better if you just extended the elbow pipe coming from the headers to your muffler ?

It's probably temporary, so not too worried with how it looks at the moment. If it's going to become permenant I'll find a place to put the O2 sensor, come hell or high water! It took a lot of work to get the exhaust tucked in like that, so I'd really want to avoid extending the header pipe a bit and moving the muffler farther back

Before:

After:

 

[toysareforboys]

On a slightly unrelated note, my GF brought over her 09 R6 for some "tuning" i.e. complete relfash of her ECU

She didn't want to drive around with my autotune plugged in so I was pretty limited with what I could/wanted to change. One of her goals with the flash was to get rid of the 60% throttle restriction and also to save money on gas.

She's got a BMC race air filter, and Akrapovic slip-on with the baffle removed.

I didn't want to come up with a lean cruise map for it without having the autotune on there for protection, but what I COULD do is make it run on "regular" (87 octane AKI) gas!!!

I made a map to pull out 4 degrees of timing across the map to make up for the lower octane fuel. There was still some 91 in her tank so figured I'd flash the map before I changed fuels and just make sure everything was working good first.

After I flashed it, one thing I did notice, especially at high RPM in 3rd, is when I let off the throttle, there was almost NO engine braking at all, I had to get on the brakes to really slow me down . I left ALL of the engine braking settings at factory default, so couldn't understand WTF was going on! It was like the bike wanted to drive away by itself when I let off the throttle sometimes

I looked at the map again, specifically the fly by wire throttle map, and noticed that when the grip was at 0% throttle, the bike was adding as much as 6% throttle or MORE if the throttle wasn't COMPLETELY at 0% (circled on the map in red below):

I also noticed when I reduced the throttle from high RPM and was coasting down, when I applied the throttle to stop the deceleration and try and drive at an even speed, once I levelled it off it would then try and keep accelerating slightly (circled in purple above). I fixed this by making the throttle response more linear to the actual grip position instead of increasing it by RPM at the lower throttle numbers (16% throttle and under). Works SWEEET now

Now, when I was doing some testing I was flashing REALLY whacked out values in some places, just to make sure the flash was actually "sticking" to the ECU. What I found out is that for some strange reason, my GF's bike never gets to the "100%" TPS column in the fly by wire throttle. So, in the above map, you can see I've copied the 100% column to the 94% column and it works absolutely perfect now It's probably a TPS adjustment issue, but makes absolutely no difference now

Her fuel light came on around this time so it was time to try some 87!!!

I double confirmed I was running the map with the timing 4 degrees retarded, filled her up with 87 and took her for a rip. I let the engine get nice and hot and tucked my go-pro between the frame and the side of the cylinder head and ran some 6th gear super low RPM full throttle roll-on's, no chugging, no pinging Then did some high RPM WOT runs in 3rd, with all the wind noise it was hard to tell if the engine was making any funny noises but DAMN does it pull like a missile!

I felt confident that everything was dialed in and handed it over to my GF to take for a rip. She was gone a lot longer than I expected, but when she finally came back, grin from ear to ear! She said she unintentionally brought the front up in 2nd gear, UNINTENTIONALLY! lol. She said it was an absolute monster "in the boonies", but still controllable "around town".

That's what I like to hear

So, here is the map (right click, save target as): http://likestuff.globat.com/r6/2012-05-04-FlashTune/08-11 R6 PumpGas87 Quick TAFB.ftm

This map is built, by hand, FROM THE STOCK ECU map. The changes include: four degrees retarded timing for use with 87 octane fuel, simulated quick turn race throttle.

I think that's it. These are the settings I used when I flashed her bike (her's is a Canadian R6 so that's why the US box is unchecked, also her EXUP is long gone due to her Akrapovic slip-on so I checked to disable EXUP as well).

If she's willing to lend me her bike more often I'll make some more maps for MORE POWER instead of CHEAPER FUEL, lol, and tune them with my autotune and post them up.

-Jamie M.

 

[budgetracing]

Just a FYI the sensors do have heaters in them but are not supposed to be used all the time. They are designed to get the sensor up to operating temp quickly from a cold start. Not to constantly heat it because of improper installation.

You will damage the sensor running it like that. If it is temporary then it's not really a problem but if you want to run with the auto tune on all the time i would switch to the dual auto tune and put each one right after each 2-1 pipe.

 

[toysareforboys]

Just a FYI the sensors do have heaters in them but are not supposed to be used all the time. They are designed to get the sensor up to operating temp quickly from a cold start. Not to constantly heat it because of improper installation.

You will damage the sensor running it like that. If it is temporary then it's not really a problem but if you want to run with the auto tune on all the time i would switch to the dual auto tune and put each one right after each 2-1 pipe.

Thanks for the info I've got the bike all dialed in and working sweet, removed the temporary autotune equipment. Insane fuel economy (230km's per tank instead of 185) and makes MONSTER power every time I spank her

My welding buddie also recommended the dual channel auto tune with dual O2 sensors, a sweet solution for sure. If I was going to do that, I would probably run two dual channels, four O2 sensors and four PCV's just so I could control each cyclinder individually, but that's getting a little crazy.

Bike is workin like a freakin champ. Will keep my autotune around to tune my customers ECU flashed bikes if they have crazy mods.

-Jamie M.

 

[frekeyguy]

Will keep my autotune around to tune my customers ECU flashed bikes if they have crazy mods.

didnt' know you ran a motorcycle shop....