conundrum? double talk, or being misled?

meester_jamie

meester_jamie

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If you went to an event where they advertised "$1000 to Win" what would you expect the winner to get paid?
Oh,, here are the rules... and the question is. .... with these rules Can a winner EVER get paid $1000

FSSS $1000 to win $60 entry fee. More than 12 cars the heats will be split and will be $500 to win each heat. Top 3 places receive prize money. $1000 to win based on min of 14 cars.

{demolition derby at Cambridge Fall fair friday night was a bit of a let down as 7 cars showed up for 3 events,, so they put all the cars in the same feature, 4 stock car against 1 built car, against 1 mini van}

the problem seems to be,, a few guys built a car to wreck,, and expect to be in the "money" so a return of some dollars at the end of the night means break even... when the purse is that high.. if there is NO chance of winning some money,, they won't wreck the car that night,, take it to another event , and try again. So they only travel to events that have a large enough purse,,, no penny slots for these guys...
Fully knowing they could fail, and not win a cent.. that is their own fault..
But when you bring a FSSS car to an event,, and they stick in a car out of that class,, which wins!! Mini Van won the car event... you just got out classed... and to boooooot! they dropped the "purse" to $300 for the win. $100 to second.

Rules -prize money- changed AFTER the winner was declared...

I think that a good legal argument would change the promoters mind to pay up... or then to small claims,,, or... is the wording of the "rules" mean you can NEVER win $1000 .... only that $1000 is paid out.

Thing is.. the promoter has been very "professional" in the past,, they run a good event, and are pretty straight forward with rules etc...
I can't figure out if the Derby promoter , or the Fair Board is reneging at this point,
 
Slick_Steveo said:
based on a minimum of 14 cars....and only 7 showed up
Click to expand...

That's how I read it.

Pretty simple to me. Not enough cars showed up to allow the full prize money.

Op- what exactly do you have a problem with? Just wondering what your line of thinking is.
 
meester_jamie said:
with these rules Can a winner EVER get paid $1000

FSSS $1000 to win $60 entry fee. More than 12 cars the heats will be split and will be $500 to win each heat. Top 3 places receive prize money. $1000 to win based on min of 14 cars.
Click to expand...

Well,, the rules state "$1000 to win",, I take that as guarentee $1000 to the winner. oh,,,
but,,, if 13 cars show up,,"more than 12" .. they will split the $1000.. and it becomes $500 to win..
then they state,, you have to have 14 cars to have $1000 to win
but the rules says,, 14 cars you can't have $1000 to win, because if you have 13 cars, it is $500 to win..

so, I think they stated "$1000 to win" ... not meaning ,,, $1000 to the winner!... but they have $1000 in purse to be spread out among 3 top cars... IF they get 14 cars.... then that $1000 gets split,,

when I see $1000 to win,,, and money for top 3.. that is taken to mean $1000 for first, something like $500 for second, and $250 for 3rd,, but in this case,, 2nd and 3rd prize money wasn't stated.. it just said "money"

$1000 to win tells me it might be worth the effort to compete if I win.... if I loose,, well , my tough luck.. but if I win... I should get $1000..... but they don't pay out unless 14 cars show.. and when 13 cars show.. the prize money is cut to $500 to win....
soooooo... lol......... can I ever win, and get paid "$1000 to win" .

you see... 12 cars show, the $1000 to win is out the window.. as 14 cars min.
13 cars show... and the prize is split to $500 to win..
or is it.. as 14 car min takes effect.
so there needs to be 14 cars in one class... then the $1000 to win is actually a purse fund.. not a prize of $1000 to the winner..
 
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Sounds like prize pool was set by entrants, and the organizers got a whopping $20 out of the deal. If the prize money was in fact decided after the event it is because the organizers failed to plan for a low-turn-out contingency and just went with what seemed fair at the time.

I wouldn't call it double talk, the important bases are covered and I wouldn't expect them to advertise for the kind of scenario they ran into because it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy where folks bother to enter dropping the numbers even lower. "To win" implies a prize-pool and says nothing about top pay outs, "To the Winner" would be an actual prize amount and they don't say that. The $500 is also a pool, possibly $250,$150,$100. Given the wording, I wouldn't expect any pools to be topped up out of the organizers pockets, though they oddly imply that if they get between 14 and 16 entrants ($840 and $960, topped up to $1000,) are they getting something out of spectator fees?

For what it's worth, I think they could have had a better event if they did put a guarantee on at least the top payout. In poker tournament parlance that would be an overlay, which pulls in a few participants looking at the chance of a huge payout for little effort, the fact that those people exist pulls in a few more who know there will be some easy pickin's, and a pro who knows the pool is growing. At least in poker, just the idea of an overlay can drive entries beyond the numbers where one actually needs to be paid, and if it doesn't, it's great PR for the next event when it does.

TL:DR version, Nobody can $1000 from a $60 entry in 12 vehicle heats without roughly 30 entries and multiple knock-out rounds... OR a huge Overlay of money from outside of the entry fees.
 
I would like to see the original advertisement for the event. I'm sick and tired of people playing with language to make something appear different than what it actually is.
 
inreb said:
I would like to see the original advertisement for the event. I'm sick and tired of people playing with language to make something appear different than what it actually is.
Click to expand...

http://www.impactmotorsports.ca/events/cambridge-fair-2013/
Event starts at 730PM
Tech and sign in opens at 5PM
Classes:
FSSS $1000 to win $60 entry. More than 12 cars the heats will be split and will be $500 to win each heat. Top 3 places receive prize money. $1000 to win based on min of 14 cars
Mini Vans $60 entry $500 to win- based on 8 entries
SS 1/2 ton trucks- $60 $500 to win based on 8 entries
 
Reads like shorthand for those in the know. As an outsider, I'd want clarification from source before assuming anything. A lawyer wouldn't be of use because they can spin anything depending who pays freight.
 
inreb said:
Reads like shorthand for those in the know. .
Click to expand...
Yup,, semantics... oh well,, the events are usually well attended, and this doesn't happen... other fairs attract max numbers .. like 48 fsss [full size straight stock] 64 fig 8 cars ... etc,,, and they have huge gate receipts too..
 
inreb said:
Reads like shorthand for those in the know. As an outsider, I'd want clarification from source before assuming anything. A lawyer wouldn't be of use because they can spin anything depending who pays freight.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Also is there a more comprehensive "Read the fine print" policy? What has been written is too ambiguous.

Other fine print trivias
Some lotteries pay out over 10 or 20 years. If you want it all up front you accept a lot less. If it's in the USA you get taxed.
Contestants in some talent shows winning a million get it over ten years and are under contract to the producers.

All that glitters is not gold.
 
Is $1000 Possible if you win your heat and then the feature?
If only 7 cars showed up, I can understand there being less of a pay out.
It reads to me like there is $1000 total per class for the feature but $500 if you win your heat? (keeps the last 2 cars playing for the money or to stop and save the car for the feature) So therefore, $500 for your heat win, and $500 for the feature win and then 2nd and 3rd make something like $300 and $200 for their placements.

I made money somehow when I ran derby cars, so I was competitive and liked winning some money. But, if I spent a couple weeks to build a Straight Stock and then got lumped in to a bunch of other random cars including a modified, I just wouldn't run it and save the car for a REAL event. Considering a car costs like $500 and all the odds and ends adds up. Unless you run the same model of car over and over then most of your parts will transfer over (like fuel tank and lines, battery etc etc) and all it ends up costing you is some welding rod, grinding discs and a bit of paint for each car. However, if you go in to it to make cash, you will be sorry at the end of the night unless you're one of those guys that tends to always do very well (or just plain out cheat and sandbag). But, it is A LOT of fun, unless you're in a 4 banger then it just tends to hurt lol.
Really surprised that promoter had a low turn out at that fair... Wednesday night in Simcoe we usually have about 30 cars show up for straight stock, some figure 8s, and usually a couple heats for mods (if I remember it all right) so Cambridge on a friday should have been fairly full. Why did someone show up with a modified car if they weren't in the program (I'm seeing FSSS, Mini-vans and trucks...).
I saw an Impact Productions derby early this summer, and I really was not impressed with how they ran it. Started late, unorganized, etc etc. Our fire fighter derby used to be run better than that!

I love demo derby, I take the day after Thanksgiving off just so I can stay late at the Simcoe fair Monday night for the Canadian championship. I get my seat at about 10am and we save them all day since it gets packed a few hours before start time.
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