Buying Motorcycle Clothing Online? Don’t Be Fooled!

[justride]

Forum Sponsor

As a new rider there are tons of gear to choose from. What ever you choose, be it an informed decision.
Credits John Milbank is the consumer editor for BikeSocial | Motorcycle News, Reviews & Features | Bennetts and Paul Varnsverry is a technical director at Home - PVA-PPE
watch

read

We found fake armour in cheap motorcycle leathers

After buying a £215 pair of leathers from Amazon, we found fake armour in this illegal, uncertified kit. This is why CE standards are so important in PPE…

www.bennetts.co.uk

 

[Roadghost]

I'm sure not a racer, but my experience with Pakistani leathers is that they're some of the best quality leather you can buy. It looks like in this review the failures are mainly due to the ignorance of the manufacturer, not really knowing enough about safety standards. For the average street rider these leathers appear to be okay. Obviously if you're a sport rider who frequents the track, investing in proper name brand leathers is wise. Riding GP style with a $400 set of leathers well, I think they're testing here tells you why that's folly.

 

[Mad Mike]

Personally I would not street ride in leathers. The coefficient of friction on leather is much lower than textile, so the slide will be longer.

Great on the track wher ther are no poles, trees, curbs and the traffic all heading in the same direction. The opposite on the street.

 

[KenC]

As a new rider there are tons of gear to choose from. What ever you choose, be it an informed decision.
Credits John Milbank is the consumer editor for BikeSocial | Motorcycle News, Reviews & Features | Bennetts and Paul Varnsverry is a technical director at Home - PVA-PPE
watch

read

We found fake armour in cheap motorcycle leathers

After buying a £215 pair of leathers from Amazon, we found fake armour in this illegal, uncertified kit. This is why CE standards are so important in PPE…

www.bennetts.co.uk

This is a really really good watch.

 

[Priller]

Personally I would not street ride in leathers. The coefficient of friction on leather is much lower than textile, so the slide will be longer.

Great on the track wher ther are no poles, trees, curbs and the traffic all heading in the same direction. The opposite on the street.

Just curious if you can point to any data on this? It's the first I've heard it, but it does make some sense.

Still, almost no textile gear can hit the CE AAA rating (bar some very expensive Klim kit using a new kind of material), where lots of leather gear gets there. That said, the difference seems to be primarily abrasion resistance, which is a much bigger factor at higher speeds.

I've always gone with leather because I've seen too many textile jackets fail, either through wear or at the seams. I know the newer stuff is better, but prefer the known quantity...

 

[Mad Mike]

Just curious if you can point to any data on this? It's the first I've heard it, but it does make some sense.

Still, almost no textile gear can hit the CE AAA rating (bar some very expensive Klim kit using a new kind of material), where lots of leather gear gets there. That said, the difference seems to be primarily abrasion resistance, which is a much bigger factor at higher speeds.

I've always gone with leather because I've seen too many textile jackets fail, either through wear or at the seams. I know the newer stuff is better, but prefer the known quantity...

I spent years in specialty textile development, mostly fabrics used for medical and protective wear.

I developed and produced specialty knits for a couple of well known high end motorcycle apparel companies. Passing the technical tests isn’t that difficult however the fabric ends up being the same thickness as leather, bulky and expensive with no clear advantages over leather. Textiles used in safety, aviation, tactical and Military gear exceed the requirements for CE AAA.

CE AAA standards are really geared to track gear which may not be ideal for street riders. I can’t find my test data, but I recall the coefficient of friction between leather and textiles was more than 20%. This means you slide easier and further on leather. At high speeds this is good, too much friction causes rolling and tumbling, not desirable.

Textiles tend to have much more drag, which means you will slow down faster and increase roll and tumble. On the track, no so good. On the street a distinct benefit.

To get a feel for what I’m trying to explain, put in dress shoes with leather soles, run down your driveway then slide to a stop. Take your shoes off and try it again in just your socks.

 

[Aens]

Textiles tend to have much more drag, which means you will slow down faster and increase roll and tumble. On the track, no so good. On the street a distinct benefit.

Can you please elaborate on why you want to roll and tumble on the street? My understanding is that nothing is going to stop you before hitting a curb that won't cause as much damage as the curb.

Also, rolling and tumbling on asphalt hurts and causes a lot of ligament/joint damage if you don't keep your extremities tucked. You also don't slow down much while airborne. I just don't understand that statement.

 

[Jampy00]

Unless you are wrapped in 25 layers of bubble wrap. Any crash on the street is going to hurt regardless of what you are wearing.
Even seasoned street riders have no idea "how to crash" as it is something that does not happen and the circumstances vary wildly.
The best protection is know you limits and buy gear from a reputable manufacturer.

 

[Mad Mike]

Can you please elaborate on why you want to roll and tumble on the street? My understanding is that nothing is going to stop you before hitting a curb that won't cause as much damage as the curb.

Also, rolling and tumbling on asphalt hurts and causes a lot of ligament/joint damage if you don't keep your extremities tucked. You also don't slow down much while airborne. I just don't understand that statement.

The drag difference between leather and textile jackets is insignificant while travelling thru the air. Neither leather or textiles are going to help much with impact to curbs/poles/oncoming traffic.

The dynamics of a fall are statistically different on a track, as are the conditions. Coming off at 200kmh where there are few obstacles and nothing travelling in the opposing direction makes sliding to a stop over a longer distance a better option.

For road accidents, only the very stupid are travelling above 140kmh, so there is a lot less speed to lose once you're off the bike, tumbling and rolling go on for less time and are less severe. The increased drag from textiles should shorten your slide which is desirable as the obstacles on roads are formidable -- curbs, posts, trees, rock cuts, and oncoming traffic.

 

[Ash]

Paul Varnsverry has been doing this for a long time. I used to have a PDF of a presentation he made probably 20 years ago, but I can't find it any more. At the time, leather racing suits from very well known brands were completely failing in crashes, particularly at the seams. The PDF had a bunch of images of one piece racing suits that had literally fallen apart, like one that had completely burst the seams in the leather panels all the way from the hip to the knee. The response from the gear manufacturers was that these were fashion garments and weren't intended to provide any protective capabilities, despite them clearly being marketed to riders and racers on the strengths of those protective qualities.

For a couple of decades the big manufacturers continued to dodge any requirement to certify their garments by sticking to the story that their motorcycling gear was not intended to be protective - except for the armour pieces, which clearly can't be described as anything except protective. So up until now, if you saw a CE label on a motorcycling garment it was almost certainly just for the armour (EN 1621-1:2012), rather than for the whole garment (EN 13595:2002, which also covers abrasion and seam burst strength), which is confusing and misleading for consumers.

There's no more wiggle room though. The EU has flat out said that any motorcycling garment (except dedicated rain gear) sold in the EU is PPE and therefore must conform to the new EN17092 standard. Which is good, because now consumers have some objective measurement to compare against, and actual independent testing of garments to back it up. What's bad is that EN17092 level A is arguably garbage - it basically only exists to allow existing non-protective garments to still be legally sold. What's good is that at least ALL garments should now be measured with the same procedures, instead of having consumers guess at what they're getting.

It's hard to compare the old EN13595 standards to the new EN17092 standards since the test apparatus is different. I suspect that even EN17092 level AAA falls short of the old EN13595 level 2, but I haven't dug into the details yet. I have an EN13595 level 2 certified textile jacket and it is ridiculously robust. The jacket alone weighs over 10 pounds.

 

[Priller]

Paul Varnsverry has been doing this for a long time. I used to have a PDF of a presentation he made probably 20 years ago, but I can't find it any more. At the time, leather racing suits from very well known brands were completely failing in crashes, particularly at the seams. The PDF had a bunch of images of one piece racing suits that had literally fallen apart, like one that had completely burst the seams in the leather panels all the way from the hip to the knee. The response from the gear manufacturers was that these were fashion garments and weren't intended to provide any protective capabilities, despite them clearly being marketed to riders and racers on the strengths of those protective qualities.

For a couple of decades the big manufacturers continued to dodge any requirement to certify their garments by sticking to the story that their motorcycling gear was not intended to be protective - except for the armour pieces, which clearly can't be described as anything except protective. So up until now, if you saw a CE label on a motorcycling garment it was almost certainly just for the armour (EN 1621-1:2012), rather than for the whole garment (EN 13595:2002, which also covers abrasion and seam burst strength), which is confusing and misleading for consumers.

There's no more wiggle room though. The EU has flat out said that any motorcycling garment (except dedicated rain gear) sold in the EU is PPE and therefore must conform to the new EN17092 standard. Which is good, because now consumers have some objective measurement to compare against, and actual independent testing of garments to back it up. What's bad is that EN17092 level A is arguably garbage - it basically only exists to allow existing non-protective garments to still be legally sold. What's good is that at least ALL garments should now be measured with the same procedures, instead of having consumers guess at what they're getting.

It's hard to compare the old EN13595 standards to the new EN17092 standards since the test apparatus is different. I suspect that even EN17092 level AAA falls short of the old EN13595 level 2, but I haven't dug into the details yet. I have an EN13595 level 2 certified textile jacket and it is ridiculously robust. The jacket alone weighs over 10 pounds.

My understanding is they consciously left the A rating low to get everyone on board with the process and encourage full testing of all garments. As Brexit shows, it's easy to paint the EU as a bureaucratic dystopia, driving costs up and humourlessly legislating everything from pint glasses to swim trunks. Offering an easy to meet standard encourages those companies who may have chased loopholes in the past to start participating in the system. ECE helmet standards are another example, where the 05 was pretty straightforward, but the new 06 will be second only to the FIM regs for stringency.

It leaves the educated consumer able to select AA or AAA garments, and if something is only rated A, it's a warning sign to walk away. At least then you know it's bad rather than guessing on an untested item. Also, as companies like RST show, you can get AA and AAA ratings without charging a fortune...

 

[Mad Mike]

Motorcycle PPE testing has a lot of room for improvement, I really wish the had real world testing (like crash testing on cars) as opposed to the simple gear used to test in a lab.

Forum Sponsor