kawi101
Member
Is it possible to make your bike fully road legal if you build the bike from scratch meaning the frame and swingarm? How would that actually work when doing insurance? Anyone know?
|
|
|
Building your own bike
- Thread starter kawi101
- Start date
iegod
Well-known member
It wouldn't - no one is going to insure that.
So how do custom shops like Creater (or whatever their spelling is) in Etobicoke get their bikes registered and insured? Obviously it's possible.
frekeyguy
Well-known member
they might have a MFG license.....
could be done. homebuilt are usually for trailer but it allows motorcycles and cars too
+1 insurance is going to be hard to find
johnnycage
Well-known member
How are you going to show that the bike has gone through stress and safety testing? You could probably get insurance, it'll just be for a lot if and or when you find someone willing to insure you.
i know of someone that has a selfbuilt dual sport.
GateKeeper
Well-known member
is our insurance not based on engine size ?
so stuffing a 1000cc engine into a 600rr frame, would still be insured as a 1000cc motorbike ?
so stuffing a 1000cc engine into a 600rr frame, would still be insured as a 1000cc motorbike ?
so much misinformation my head is exploding.
The VIN on the frame says it's a 600cc bike... You crash and your insurance company starts to investigate... well, that's a different story.
Yes, as long as you don't tell them about it. But they will ask if your bike is modified and that definitely counts as a modification. It's all about how comfortable you are about not telling the truth. If you buy only liability, it's unlikely they will investigate your bike if you crash it in an accident that doesn't hurt anyone else. A popular engine swap back in the day was to install an 1100 motor into a GSXR-750 frame, otherwise known as a Suzuki 7/11.
You can easily get a VIN for a homebuilt. I'm looking at the paperwork for an affidavit right in front of me.
(Ask for info at the MTO about registering homebuilt vehicles.)
Once you get it, your VIN will identfiy it as homebuilt. You will have to permanently affix that number to the frame.
Insurance is no less of a pita than it is now with antique bikes...forget about collision without an appraisal etc.
You will need to pass inspection/safety.
(Ask for info at the MTO about registering homebuilt vehicles.)
Once you get it, your VIN will identfiy it as homebuilt. You will have to permanently affix that number to the frame.
Insurance is no less of a pita than it is now with antique bikes...forget about collision without an appraisal etc.
You will need to pass inspection/safety.
GateKeeper
Well-known member
I see, so we are doing a little bit of fraud, we will just back peddle if and when we get into and accident and or get caught in any other way..
OK
I agree, fraud is fraud. Misrepresentation for the "financial gain" of cheaper insurance. Not good.
Now, if you have a used bike and it has a stock engine that has been bore'd out larger...what if the bike was swapped before you bought it, and you don't necessarily know that it is not the right engine. (Plausible deniability.)
After an accident is the insurance company going to disassemble the engine to measure the volume of the cylinder? Probably not.
In the case of the GSXR 7/11 swap, does the engine still have the 1100cc markings on it? Is the external size of the motor that dramatically different?
Now, if you have a used bike and it has a stock engine that has been bore'd out larger...what if the bike was swapped before you bought it, and you don't necessarily know that it is not the right engine. (Plausible deniability.)
After an accident is the insurance company going to disassemble the engine to measure the volume of the cylinder? Probably not.
In the case of the GSXR 7/11 swap, does the engine still have the 1100cc markings on it? Is the external size of the motor that dramatically different?
To the OP. Yes you can. I got this from the Ministry.....
REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS:
The following items should be presented at any at any independently operated Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office - http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/issoff.htm in Ontario:
1. Completed Application for Registration (SR-LV-6) (forms available at any independently operated Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office in Ontario).
2. A notarized affidavit (Statutory Declaration). Refer to the information sheet below for details that must be stated on affidavit.
3. Photocopies of bills of sale/receipts for main components (i.e. body, chassis/frame, engine, etc.), if available.
4. Permit(s) for vehicle(s) used to rebuild vehicle (for rebuilt/kit vehicle), if available.
5. Safety Standards Certificate - http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm for a passenger/commercial vehicle or a motorcycle. For complete equipment list, please see MINIMUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR ON-ROAD USE.
6. Drive Clean Vehicle Emissions Pass Report not required. Effective January 1, 2002, kit cars (MODEL "KIT") will be exempted from the Drive Clean program. For more information, please contact the Drive Clean Office at:
Ministry of the Environment, Drive Clean Office, 40 St. Clair Ave. West - 4th Floor, Toronto, Ontario, M4V 1M2, Web site: http://www.driveclean.com/ , TEL: 1-888-758-2999 OR (905) 837-5839.
7. Proof of empty weight.
8. Canada Customs Form or documentation with Customs Clearance stamp for parts (e.g. body of vehicle) which were obtained outside Canada. For more information on importation, please call: Registrar of Imported Vehicles Tel: 1-888-848-8240 or (416) 626-1803, E‑mail: info@riv.ca, Web site: http://www.riv.ca
9. 8% retail sales tax on the declared value of a kit car. For more information, please contact your local Retail Sales Tax field office, or: Ministry of Finance, Retail Sales Tax Branch, Toll-Free: 1-800-263-7965 or (905) 433‑6000.
10. Plate & permit fees: (a) To register the vehicle and attach plates when the vehicle owner has his/her own plates $10.00; (b) For new plates and permit $20.00. Note: For plate validation, the owner will be required to buy validation from the date of vehicle registration to the assigned validation expiry date. Fees will be calculated according to the class of vehicle and declaration(s) (e.g. Northern Ontario Resident).
11. Proof of identity for applicant who has never registered a plate or vehicle with the ministry.
NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT REQUIREMENTS
A notarized affidavit is a sworn statement (also called a Statutory Declaration) made before a Commissioner of Oaths or a Notary Public. It is needed to establish vehicle ownership of all parts used in the vehicle's reconstruction, and to provide a full vehicle description. All independently operated Ontario Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Offices may accept affidavits.
CONTENTS
1. Full legal name, address and signature of person making the declaration;
2. Vehicle description - minimum requirements: make, model, model year, body type and class). If you are attaching permits and/or bills of sale for the component parts, please mention this. Where permits or bills of sale are not available, you must include the V.I.N.s and descriptions of all vehicles from which main component parts have been taken, and list previous owner information for such vehicles.
3. Vehicle Identification Number (V.I.N.), or a statement that a ministry approved/assigned V.I.N. will be used;
4. Year vehicle was rebuilt/completed;
5. Statement that the applicant is the legal and rightful owner, has the right to register the vehicle described, and how ownership was obtained.
For more information, see KIT CAR NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT Q & A's.
MININUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR ON-ROAD USE
Safety standards are listed in Regulation 611 - Safety Inspections http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm under the Highway Traffic Act, and the minimum equipment standards under the Highway Traffic Act.
To purchase a copy of the Highway Traffic Act, please contact:
Publications Ontario, Toll Free: 1-800-668--9938 or (416) 326‑5300, Web site: http://pubont.stores.gov.on.ca/pool/...catalogue.asp?
Highway Traffic Act, online: http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes...sh/90h08_e.htm
Minimum equipment requirement references in the Highway Traffic Act are as
follows:
Section 62 - Lamps & Turn Signals
Section 64 - Brakes
Section 66 - Mirrors, Windshield Wipers, Oedometer & Fenders/Mudguards
Section 69 - Tires
Section 72 - Safety Glass
Section 75 - Muffler & horn
Section 103 - Reflectors
Section 106 - Seat belt assemblies
Section 142 - Brake lamp
And:
Highway Traffic Act Regulations:
Regulation 587 - Equipment:
http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900587_e.htm
Regulation 625 - Tire Standards & Specifications:
http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900625_e.htm
REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS:
The following items should be presented at any at any independently operated Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office - http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/issoff.htm in Ontario:
1. Completed Application for Registration (SR-LV-6) (forms available at any independently operated Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Office in Ontario).
2. A notarized affidavit (Statutory Declaration). Refer to the information sheet below for details that must be stated on affidavit.
3. Photocopies of bills of sale/receipts for main components (i.e. body, chassis/frame, engine, etc.), if available.
4. Permit(s) for vehicle(s) used to rebuild vehicle (for rebuilt/kit vehicle), if available.
5. Safety Standards Certificate - http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm for a passenger/commercial vehicle or a motorcycle. For complete equipment list, please see MINIMUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR ON-ROAD USE.
6. Drive Clean Vehicle Emissions Pass Report not required. Effective January 1, 2002, kit cars (MODEL "KIT") will be exempted from the Drive Clean program. For more information, please contact the Drive Clean Office at:
Ministry of the Environment, Drive Clean Office, 40 St. Clair Ave. West - 4th Floor, Toronto, Ontario, M4V 1M2, Web site: http://www.driveclean.com/ , TEL: 1-888-758-2999 OR (905) 837-5839.
7. Proof of empty weight.
8. Canada Customs Form or documentation with Customs Clearance stamp for parts (e.g. body of vehicle) which were obtained outside Canada. For more information on importation, please call: Registrar of Imported Vehicles Tel: 1-888-848-8240 or (416) 626-1803, E‑mail: info@riv.ca, Web site: http://www.riv.ca
9. 8% retail sales tax on the declared value of a kit car. For more information, please contact your local Retail Sales Tax field office, or: Ministry of Finance, Retail Sales Tax Branch, Toll-Free: 1-800-263-7965 or (905) 433‑6000.
10. Plate & permit fees: (a) To register the vehicle and attach plates when the vehicle owner has his/her own plates $10.00; (b) For new plates and permit $20.00. Note: For plate validation, the owner will be required to buy validation from the date of vehicle registration to the assigned validation expiry date. Fees will be calculated according to the class of vehicle and declaration(s) (e.g. Northern Ontario Resident).
11. Proof of identity for applicant who has never registered a plate or vehicle with the ministry.
NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT REQUIREMENTS
A notarized affidavit is a sworn statement (also called a Statutory Declaration) made before a Commissioner of Oaths or a Notary Public. It is needed to establish vehicle ownership of all parts used in the vehicle's reconstruction, and to provide a full vehicle description. All independently operated Ontario Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing Offices may accept affidavits.
CONTENTS
1. Full legal name, address and signature of person making the declaration;
2. Vehicle description - minimum requirements: make, model, model year, body type and class). If you are attaching permits and/or bills of sale for the component parts, please mention this. Where permits or bills of sale are not available, you must include the V.I.N.s and descriptions of all vehicles from which main component parts have been taken, and list previous owner information for such vehicles.
3. Vehicle Identification Number (V.I.N.), or a statement that a ministry approved/assigned V.I.N. will be used;
4. Year vehicle was rebuilt/completed;
5. Statement that the applicant is the legal and rightful owner, has the right to register the vehicle described, and how ownership was obtained.
For more information, see KIT CAR NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT Q & A's.
MININUM SAFETY STANDARDS FOR ON-ROAD USE
Safety standards are listed in Regulation 611 - Safety Inspections http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm under the Highway Traffic Act, and the minimum equipment standards under the Highway Traffic Act.
To purchase a copy of the Highway Traffic Act, please contact:
Publications Ontario, Toll Free: 1-800-668--9938 or (416) 326‑5300, Web site: http://pubont.stores.gov.on.ca/pool/...catalogue.asp?
Highway Traffic Act, online: http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes...sh/90h08_e.htm
Minimum equipment requirement references in the Highway Traffic Act are as
follows:
Section 62 - Lamps & Turn Signals
Section 64 - Brakes
Section 66 - Mirrors, Windshield Wipers, Oedometer & Fenders/Mudguards
Section 69 - Tires
Section 72 - Safety Glass
Section 75 - Muffler & horn
Section 103 - Reflectors
Section 106 - Seat belt assemblies
Section 142 - Brake lamp
And:
Highway Traffic Act Regulations:
Regulation 587 - Equipment:
http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900587_e.htm
Regulation 625 - Tire Standards & Specifications:
http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Regs/English/900625_e.htm
handlegrip
Active member
I found a lot of the above very informative. However, now for something completely different I sometimes wondered how some, shall we call them "Creations" you see on the road could get on the road, whether a shop has a Gov. approved certificate to do so or not. Many can be felt
by a blind man's cane that they are stupidity in motion and thus they are staining the good name of metal and paint, never mind
road worthiness? To see one of these dumb things go by is proof that Gov. truly is bought by Insurance companies for most of these machines
should not be allowed on the road, ever at any insurable price. And since they are they should make any proven tested production bike
afford ably insurable to any one no matter what age but based on their driving record. Good luck build from scratch, hope you know what you are doing.
by a blind man's cane that they are stupidity in motion and thus they are staining the good name of metal and paint, never mind
road worthiness? To see one of these dumb things go by is proof that Gov. truly is bought by Insurance companies for most of these machines
should not be allowed on the road, ever at any insurable price. And since they are they should make any proven tested production bike
afford ably insurable to any one no matter what age but based on their driving record. Good luck build from scratch, hope you know what you are doing.
That is fraud. You'll be able to get the bike registered but if you ever get into an accident or whatnot, guess who'll be having a lovely time paying for all the damages out of his pocket.
Thing is some are legit. And some arent. Depends on what risks each builder was willing to make.
But having been to the Kreator shop, they have highly skills people working in their shop and I have seen highly skilled people get asked to go through more schooling before coming to work for them.
|
|
|
|
|