Banning two-stroke lawn equipment | GTAMotorcycle.com

Banning two-stroke lawn equipment

Sky_high

Sky_high

Well-known member
Ok, I know that The Sun is not the greatest source of information, but this article peaked my interest

What does two-stroke have to do with insects and COVID-19?

torontosun.com

Toronto one step closer to banning two-stroke lawn equipment

At the same time provincial and city officials were unveiling drastic new measures to contain a worrying local spike in a worldwide pandemic emergency, Toronto coun…
torontosun.com torontosun.com


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There's no cause and effect here, just NYMBYism.
My ADHD/OCD/paranoid neighbour has a big-ass, really noisy leaf blower and weed whacker.
It wouldn't break my heart to never hear them again.
He also has a 30" track driven snow blower for a 10x20 foot driveway- I think he's compensating.
 
Sky_high said:
Ok, I know that The Sun is not the greatest source of information, but this article peaked my interest

What does two-stroke have to do with insects and COVID-19?

torontosun.com

Toronto one step closer to banning two-stroke lawn equipment

At the same time provincial and city officials were unveiling drastic new measures to contain a worrying local spike in a worldwide pandemic emergency, Toronto coun…
torontosun.com torontosun.com


Sent from my Pixel using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Its the smell, people associate smell with pollution. Banning 2strokes will do pretty much zero. But hey if everyone has lithium powered trimmers and mowers we can do some more open cut mining and really poison the environment with toxic substances lol
 
TK4 said:
This isn't a provincial thing, its municipal.
Click to expand...
Our municipalities adopt the California pollution laws for the same reason the provence adopts the California pollution laws and the same reason reason Canada adopts the California pollution laws. California spends huge bucks on researching and legislating these issues and we don't have the money and resources to do that.

The first truck I bought in the 1976 was California emissions compliant. It started even before that. Nothing has changed.
 
Trials said:
California spends huge bucks on researching and legislating these issues
Click to expand...

That HUGE money they spent, told them that the guy trimming his grass with a 2 stroke trimmer is killing the planet at such a high rate that we need to ban 2 strokes? Its a drop in the ocean compared to the emissions and pollution being spewed into the atmosphere in developing countries by US companies manufacturing there and then shipping goods around the globe. Canada and USA could cut ALL emissions completely and the planet will still be doomed after our economies die.
 
California banned 2-stroke motorcycles from operating in their federal parks a long time ago.

Basically they don't want you to run a motor that constantly burns oil as part of its normal operation, with the logic being fairly obvious :/ you are putting those hydrocarbon emissions directly into the atmosphere.
 
Its the noise not the emissions that are in issue.
2-stroke outdoor equipment just doesn't have much in the way of mufflers.
I lived through 3 days of stone being cut for a neighbour's interlocking driveway, it was not pleaseant.
 
There have been lots of studies and Lotus? built a 2stroke car engine that proved it could be made more 'green' than a 4stroke. But its easy to hate on 2 strokes, the bad engineering in cheap ones and the obvious pollution from as poorly tuned one.

my bigger beef are the landscaping retards with huge gas blowers that sandblast the shitte out of my cars paintjob. Blasting everything out into the street so its no longer there problem.
 
crankcall said:
my bigger beef are the landscaping retards with huge gas blowers that sandblast the shitte out of my cars paintjob. Blasting everything out into the street so its no longer there problem.
Click to expand...
Report them, that is against the bylaws of the city.

Speaking of noise pollution. How do planes (air traffic) factor. I was cleaning the bike last night and there was a slow moving one, musta been a bit low, making a bunch of noise. I didn't even look up at it as hearing it was enough.
 
sburns said:
Report them, that is against the bylaws of the city.

Speaking of noise pollution. How do planes (air traffic) factor. I was cleaning the bike last night and there was a slow moving one, musta been a bit low, making a bunch of noise. I didn't even look up at it as hearing it was enough.
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Planes are dealt with entirely differently. Airports get noise contour maps made based on predicted volumes and flight paths. These maps ignore everything on the ground and everything over a certain height. The program to create these maps was made by transport canada many many moons ago. It's old enough that it is multiple programs that have to be run in succession to input data, process data and calculate. Pages of bugs too. Big planes are supposed to meet class sound level limits (think CARB except for noise). Small planes are basically a free for all. Individual planes flying around have some places they are restricted from flying, but very very few of those have anything to do with noise.
 
crankcall said:
There have been lots of studies and Lotus? built a 2stroke car engine that proved it could be made more 'green' than a 4stroke. But its easy to hate on 2 strokes, the bad engineering in cheap ones and the obvious pollution from as poorly tuned one.

my bigger beef are the landscaping retards with huge gas blowers that sandblast the shitte out of my cars paintjob. Blasting everything out into the street so its no longer there problem.
Click to expand...

one of the Euro bike makers, not sure but maybe KTM, memory is failing me
is developing a clean 2 stroke

direct fuel injection and closed loop - dry sump crankcase lubrication
no oil in the gas or in the combustion chamber

yeah those blowers are not necessary, certainly for a city sized lot
I replaced my gas powered one with electric

had a Dewalt 20V kit and a few cordless tools with it
added the blower - same batteries and charger
works just as well as the gas one and much quieter
 
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J_F said:
one of the Euro bike makers, not sure but maybe KTM, memory is failing me
is developing a clean 2 stroke

direct fuel injection and closed loop - dry sump crankcase lubrication
no oil in the gas or in the combustion chamber
...
Click to expand...
How are you going to lubricate the cylinder to ring interface?
... even if you do manage to lubricate the top end bearing with sealed needle or a plain bearing somehow.

Sounds a little like the plastic motors they were going to build in Kingston.
 
Trials said:
How are you going to lubricate the cylinder to ring interface?
... even if you do manage to lubricate the top end bearing with sealed needle or a plain bearing somehow.

Sounds a little like the plastic motors they were going to build in Kingston.
Click to expand...

good questions trials
will see if I can dig out the article

recall wondering that when I read about it
cylinder wall needs some oil on it
and piston needs to be cooled somehow
 
Ceramics maybe?
 
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maybe?

but I recall it was still piston ported - no valves in the head
so if it had a wet sump, oil is still going to end up in the combustion chamber
 
DownUnder said:
That HUGE money they spent, told them that the guy trimming his grass with a 2 stroke trimmer is killing the planet at such a high rate that we need to ban 2 strokes? Its a drop in the ocean compared to the emissions and pollution being spewed into the atmosphere in developing countries by US companies manufacturing there and then shipping goods around the globe. Canada and USA could cut ALL emissions completely and the planet will still be doomed after our economies die.
Click to expand...

My guess is we're well past the point of no return for climate change because the next big thing is when the Arctic opens up and the big nations US/China/Russia and even Canada are going to be trying to secure it for w/e purposes they deem fit etc... However reducing other pollutants is still a good thing
 
Skidoo has a turbo, Rotax powered California EPA spec clean air two stroke sled.
Still piston ported, with EFI and a computer controlled power valve on the exhaust port

Trials said:
How are you going to lubricate the cylinder to ring interface?
Click to expand...

How about the same way as a four stroke?
... which is usually not a "wet sump".
A lawn mower with no oil pump has a "wet sump". In a "wet sump" motor the crank/big end dips into the oil reservoir, splashing oil around.
Terribly in-efficient.
Cars and bikes have a modified or semi dry sump, with the oil reservoir at the bottom of the motor, that way you only need one oil pump.
In a true dry sump, you need a scavenge oil pump, to pick up the oil and pump it to the reservoir, and a pressure pump that delivers oil, under pressure, from the reservoir to the motor

I am probably the biggest fan of two strokes here BUT the two strokes found on lawn care equipment, that is built and designed to be the lowest price possible, are the most polluting motors out there and are no comparison to bike or sled motors, that have stringent EPA legislation... even for off road vehicles.
 
Trials said:
How are you going to lubricate the cylinder to ring interface?
... even if you do manage to lubricate the top end bearing with sealed needle or a plain bearing somehow.

Sounds a little like the plastic motors they were going to build in Kingston.
Click to expand...
I think the bigger issue for pollution is the unburned fuel related to port timing, conventional 2strokes need an overlap of 120 degrees when both ports are open to mix fuel/air so unburned gas houses thru the exhaust. The new designs are direct injection, the exhaust valve is closed before fuel is injected.


bitzz said:
Skidoo has a turbo, Rotax powered California EPA spec clean air two stroke sled.
Still piston ported, with EFI and a computer controlled power valve on the exhaust port



How about the same way as a four stroke?
... which is usually not a "wet sump".
A lawn mower with no oil pump has a "wet sump". In a "wet sump" motor the crank/big end dips into the oil reservoir, splashing oil around.
Terribly in-efficient.
Cars and bikes have a modified or semi dry sump, with the oil reservoir at the bottom of the motor, that way you only need one oil pump.
In a true dry sump, you need a scavenge oil pump, to pick up the oil and pump it to the reservoir, and a pressure pump that delivers oil, under pressure, from the reservoir to the motor

I am probably the biggest fan of two strokes here BUT the two strokes found on lawn care equipment, that is built and designed to be the lowest price possible, are the most polluting motors out there and are no comparison to bike or sled motors, that have stringent EPA legislation... even for off road vehicles.
Click to expand...
Modern 2 strokes are also more efficient on fuel and oil. Modern lubricants also burn more completely than stuff we used decades back. Love to see them come back.
 
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