Argon Tank Re-fills in the GTA for welding

Freestyle72

Freestyle72

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Hi Guys,

I recently purchased a tig welder this is my first one, and I am wondering what is the largest size argon bottle you can get refilled at the local welding supply places?

Do some places accept larger cylinders than others? I expect go through ALOT of gas as I am learning so I want the best bang per CF of gas. Which as you might know the price gets significantly cheaper with refill volume. the LWS wants $289 for an 80CF tank. Which is a bit of a rip as a quick look on ebay will show them for less than half that price brand new. The guy told me I could rent larger bottles than that. But I forgot to ask if I can buy my own larger bottle and have them fill mine. I think a 125CF or maybe 150CF would be good as it's large but not too large for me to lift and transport around. However if 80CF is really the largest I can do then that's what I will be getting.

Would love to hear if you guys have a preferred place or if price varies for the gas by CF depending on where you go. And if they let you fill larger bottles or not etc.

Can't wait to practice welding a little bit more.
 
What TIG machine did you get? I have a Miller Dynasty 200DX. As far as filling bottles goes, they don't seem to do that at the local stores anymore. My supplier (I use Tri County Welding here in Kitchener, an Air Liquide distributor) told me that it had something to do with that big explosion there a couple of years ago.They just do an exchange and send the bottles out to be refilled. I bought an 80CF for ease of working out of the shop, thinking that I would have a new bottle that would look better and last longer, but the first time I needed it refilled, they gave me a ratty looking thing. I was alittle miffed.

80CF is the biggest anyone will sell, but there is no limit on the size that they will lease you, there is no limit on the refills, either. Although wellding tanks are subject to regular safety inspections, and will not be refilled if they are beyond a certain age.

Prices do vary, so shop around. I use the same guys for everything, because theygave me the best price on the welder when I bought it, and they continue to give ne a deal on everything. Have fun with it!
 
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PeterTrocewicz said:
What TIG machine did you get? I have a Miller Dynasty 200DX. As far as filling bottles goes, they don't seem to do that at the local stores anymore. My supplier (I use Tri County Welding here in Kitchener, an Air Liquide distributor) told me that it had something to do with that big explosion there a couple of years ago.They just do an exchange and send the bottles out to be refilled. I bought an 80CF for ease of working out of the shop, thinking that I would have a new bottle that would look better and last longer, but the first time I needed it refilled, they gave me a ratty looking thing. I was alittle miffed.

80CF is the biggest anyone will sell, but there is no limit on the size that they will lease you, there is no limit on the refills, either. Although wellding tanks are subject to regular safety inspections, and will not be refilled if they are beyond a certain age.

Prices do vary, so shop around. I use the same guys for everything, because theygave me the best price on the welder when I bought it, and they continue to give ne a deal on everything. Have fun with it!
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You are correct the guy said they would swap out the bottle I brought in. And he said a brand new bottle was $289 + tax. And they would just swap it with an old one after. I wanted to keep my pristine bottle they would keep it for 3 days to have it filled. Which is no good for me, because I don't have that much time at home due to my work. So I don't want to pay new price for a bottle when I am going to have an old ratty bottle anyway.

Anyways I bought a Thermal Arc 300GTSW. Its a 300amp AC/DC Tig/Stick inverter machine. I think if you get a wire feeder you can do mig as well. But I only want to do tig. I was so close to buying a 200dx but the budget was just too much for me. And I found out the warranty only applies to the initial purchaser as per the "true blue" warranty document.

Do you have any idea if you can refill larger bottles than 80CF? And do you find the 80CF one lasts you a good while? I played around with stick and tig before for a couple hours each. But now is the time to buckle down and practice so I can progress beyond making beads on a flat surface.

Bought a lincoln autodarkending helmet the 2450. And the bastards go and release the 3350 right after for not much more money ahaha... like 1" more of viewing area.
 
Check out TSC stores, if you have them in your area. They have a deal with Praxxair. I use them for oxy acetelene.
 
An 80CF bottle should last between 6 and 8 hours of arc-on welding time, depending on you flow rate setting, which will vary according to the cup size on the torch and the position you are welding in. Welding suppliers will refill any size bottle, there is no limit on that. You may be able to find a used bottle for sale privately, but some suppliers will not refill a bottle that is not puchased or leased from them.

Thermal Arc makes a good unit. 300 Amp is good power, most people make the mistake of buying the small cheap units that are way too undersized to do what they want. AC output is good for Aluminum, wait untill you try that, it is a lot of fun.
 
praxair
 
Any of you gents know a supplier who will fill my own 125CF tank? The Unitec guy in milton will not... He will only fill up to a 80CF bottle for me.

The 80CF in the states will cost me $125 full.. and the 125CF will cost me $125 full. I would like to get the 125CF as the gas is about 30% cheaper per fill, not to mention you save the hassles of running out of gas sooner.
 
I would love to swing by to see u TIG weld. I;m curious as to how that works
 
Well I haven't even used it yet because I gotta re-wire my panel before I can do so "safely". So I am waiting to do that. Trying to get my ducks in a row with this argon ******** since the local welding supply place (unitec) wants $289 for a 80CF bottle plus the $60 for the fill.


Anyways I have fooled around for a couple hours on another TIG machine and it's hard to explain but it's like having an electric flame and you just melt whatever metal you are working on and dab filler into the melted puddle and as you move along it solidifies and new parts melt... It's really cool.

I won't mind of observers but obviously I would have to find you some eye protection. Plus I am not good or anything like I said I just fooled around for a couple hours on someone elses machine... I have a long way to go before I can make cool stuff.
 
Freestyle72 said:
Well I haven't even used it yet because I gotta re-wire my panel before I can do so "safely". So I am waiting to do that. Trying to get my ducks in a row with this argon ******** since the local welding supply place (unitec) wants $289 for a 80CF bottle plus the $60 for the fill.


Anyways I have fooled around for a couple hours on another TIG machine and it's hard to explain but it's like having an electric flame and you just melt whatever metal you are working on and dab filler into the melted puddle and as you move along it solidifies and new parts melt... It's really cool.

I won't mind of observers but obviously I would have to find you some eye protection. Plus I am not good or anything like I said I just fooled around for a couple hours on someone elses machine... I have a long way to go before I can make cool stuff.
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From what I read, the inert gas is there to prevent it for oxidizing. I am just curious how you would make that happen, since we are in an atmosphere of 20% O2.

I wonder if I can pick up a cheap welding mask at P. Auto?
 
RockerGuy said:
From what I read, the inert gas is there to prevent it for oxidizing. I am just curious how you would make that happen, since we are in an atmosphere of 20% O2.

I wonder if I can pick up a cheap welding mask at P. Auto?
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You can get a cheap helmet there... I can probably grab you one from work for free. How it works is that the torch has a ceramic cup surround the tip. Then when you run your torch and start the arc the machine will start flowing the argon so that it can pool around the weld then the arc starts so the weld gets shielded.
 
Freestyle72 said:
You can get a cheap helmet there... I can probably grab you one from work for free. How it works is that the torch has a ceramic cup surround the tip. Then when you run your torch and start the arc the machine will start flowing the argon so that it can pool around the weld then the arc starts so the weld gets shielded.
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I guess this works because it is heavier than air. Interesting...

From my further reading, it is an abundant gas after separation from the atmosphere. More abundant than helium.

As for the safety regarding the tanks, I would understand why they cost so much. They have to be held in high pressure. Their boiling point is almost the same as Liq. nitrogen. I worked in a lab using liq N2. I hate filling the tanks. When we filled it, u would hear the gas hissing very loud and hear everything contracting. Like the hull of a submarine diving at depths. The worse I feared were those tanks exploding and freeze me instantly.

We had one exploded in the lab. The whole roof turned white and it was a cloud of white, u couldn't see your way out. Luckily no one was close by or else they would've been a statue. When it hits your skin, its so cold, it actually burns. We used to freeze everything and smashed it to the floor. At -210*C everything behaves differently. When they get spilled to the floor they boil and bounce around.

Sorry, I get excited about nerdy stuff :D
 
RockerGuy said:
From what I read, the inert gas is there to prevent it for oxidizing. I am just curious how you would make that happen, since we are in an atmosphere of 20% O2.

Its not just the O2 that needs to be kept out, nitrogen and hydrogen are also very bad for welds. The other advantage of argon is the the way it ionizes, or takes on an electric charge. This provides a smoother and hotter path for the arc, which also helps the tungsten last longer. Try striking an arc without the gas turned on.

The technique of TIG welding is almost identical to oxy-acetylene welding, but with a more focused heat source, which on most setups can be adjusted on the go.
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So the Unitec guy here in milton won't take any bottles except for unitec bottles.

So I am currently trying to exchange my bottle for a fresh one.
 
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