Are Toronto private company parking tickets enforceable? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Are Toronto private company parking tickets enforceable?

M

micelli.i

Well-known member
Last week I parked on a private lot in TO (i.e. not owned by the City).

I got a $30 parking ticket, NOT for not displaying ticket, BUT for parking vehicle on private property without consent. In the contrary to by-law section, no by-law section written, just the word "Toronto" entered.

I checked Toronto Parking Ticket Lookup, (entered ticket no. & first 3 letters of last name), but it comes up "no ticket found." It looks like a bona fide parking ticket, with the City of Toronto logo and all that, but the ticket itself is handwritten.

Are these enforceable? It's only $30, but I'm thinking to fight it just to see what happens. How would a prosecutor prove I had no consent to park there? Bring the private lot owner to testify? For a $30 ticket? Weird...
 
Unless there is an option to pay the ticket at the ticket office; it would be a fake ticket.

TPS Parking Services and MLEOs can issue enforceable parking tickets on private property. "Parking without owner's consent" is meant to be vague and broad.

The owner does not have to testify, the agent issuing the ticket would have to testify in court. They would need show some evidence of receiving a phone call or speaking with the owner that your vehicle did not have permission to park there.

There would need to be appropriate signage in the area, that specifically states you need permission/permit in order to park here during all or certain hours of the day.
 
dispute it ans see if they(lot owner) will send a ticket writer to court for the day for the $30.
 
micelli.i said:
Last week I parked on a private lot in TO (i.e. not owned by the City).

I got a $30 parking ticket, NOT for not displaying ticket, BUT for parking vehicle on private property without consent. In the contrary to by-law section, no by-law section written, just the word "Toronto" entered.

I checked Toronto Parking Ticket Lookup, (entered ticket no. & first 3 letters of last name), but it comes up "no ticket found." It looks like a bona fide parking ticket, with the City of Toronto logo and all that, but the ticket itself is handwritten.

Are these enforceable? It's only $30, but I'm thinking to fight it just to see what happens. How would a prosecutor prove I had no consent to park there? Bring the private lot owner to testify? For a $30 ticket? Weird...
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Things have changed a bit since I knew the nuts and bolts of this system, but if it's a handwritten ticket someone has to be manually punching it into that system so that may not have been done yet at the time you checked. These tickets are supposed to work as if the parking company is a (narrowly defined) agent of the city, and after they are issued they are handled through the same system that other city parking tickets are. The money goes to the city and not the issuer, so the motivation for issuing tickets like this is that they have more teeth to them then issuing a ticket on their own stationary (i.e. cut down on delinquent parkers). I have no idea how likely the company is to defend the ticket - the person who actually wrote it would probably vastly prefer blowing an hour or two in traffic court to skulking around parking lots, but the company may not want to spare them to do that

Don't take this to mean I am sympathetic to these companies, I generally regard them as vile scum
 
Private companies who patrol private property have two choices.
They can have their employees take the necessary training and have them certified as Municipal Law Enforcement Officers.
MLEOs are authorized to issue City of Toronto parking tags but only on private property.
Most of these companies can't be bothered, so they issue what are essentially invoices or bills for people who park in the areas under their care without paying.
Although these bills are designed to look just like regular parking tags, they do not have the City of Toronto crest and the Toronto Police crest at the top.
If your ticket doesn't have those crests, it's not a parking tag, it's a bill.
Send a letter to the payment address on the ticket. Ask for a trial.
If it is a city parking tag, it may not show up in the online system for up to 10 days.
 
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I wonder what the "Without consent" means. I'm guessing consent is given when you pay and supposedly read the terms etc posted somewhere on your stub or on a sign somewhere on the lot.

If it was a parking lot belonging to a mall consent may be defined as granted for shopping at a store in the mall.

There is no un-owned land in the GTA so someone collects income one way or another.

Some places are brutal when people park and don't use the business. Towed in ten isn't rare at the airport strip.
 
Look for the signs and read them.
In the City of Toronto they are white with black lettering.
PRIVATE PROPERTY
Followed by the condition which allow you to park. Those conditions could be almost anything.
 
Most likely not enforceable but they can send it to collections.
 
I would imagine that if you don't pay, they just file it away,
and when you do it again they tow you, and just add it to the bill.
 
Baggsy said:
I would imagine that if you don't pay, they just file it away,
and when you do it again they tow you, and just add it to the bill.
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You may not even need another infraction. If they are feeling bored, they may be able to hook you even if you are legally parked next time. If I chose not to pay a private parking ticket, I would never park in those lots again.
 
I used to lease a lot from the COT in the downtown core. "Parking without consent of owner" was at least $60 IIRC and bumped up to $80 before I left several years ago. The PEOs used hand-held printers for the tickets. No handwriting except for the signature, I think. Also going on memory, the tickets were printed on a type of water/tear resistant material. Not sure if plastic or specially coated paper. It could be the lot owner scaring off turkeys with fake tickets, hard to say. In one case when a PEOs ticketed a client of mine (I hadn't called their dispatcher, so a bit mysterious), I had to provide a signed letter indicating consent and a copy of the parking license for the trial. The prosecutor was VERY surprised at that and reluctantly dismissed the ticket. So if you don't have the goods and the ticket is real, you are boned. No need for the lot owner to show.
 
Thanks for all of your inputs, folks!

Flywheel said:
... In one case when a PEOs ticketed a client of mine (I hadn't called their dispatcher, so a bit mysterious), I had to provide a signed letter indicating consent and a copy of the parking license for the trial. The prosecutor was VERY surprised at that and reluctantly dismissed the ticket. So if you don't have the goods and the ticket is real, you are boned. No need for the lot owner to show.
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In response to your matter, I find it interesting that the accused brought a signed letter indicating consent from landlord to park on private property. I thought the onus is on the prosecutor to show accused had no consent; not the other way around (i.e. that accused had consent).

In any event, I'll fight it and see who shows up.
 
micelli.i said:
In response to your matter, I find it interesting that the accused brought a signed letter indicating consent from landlord to park on private property. I thought the onus is on the prosecutor to show accused had no consent; not the other way around (i.e. that accused had consent).
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Normally, to get the PEO to ticket an illegal parker, you had to call the PE dispatcher first and explain the problem. Then the request was sent to the local patrol who arrived at some stage to write the ticket. The officer would ask for you by name, sometimes confirming the license. Often the turkey had already flown. So by the time the ticket is written, the city has consent nailed down good--they were specifically asked to ticket on behalf of the registered licensee through the appropriate channel. I couldn't just wave down a patrol and zap the parker without proof. That being said, two of my customers were mysteriously ticketed (no call-in, only one fought it) and I was personally ticketed TWICE (the "owner" in "consent of the owner"), so the system wasn't entirely foolproof.
 
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I checked with a buddy who used to write tags (a blue/green hornet).
In order to tag on private property, the Officer must have permission to go on the property from the owner or a representative of the owner.
The owner or rep points out the car to be tagged. The tag is issued then the owner or rep signs the Officer's copy indicating they asked the tag be issued.
No consent is required for disabled parking or for fire routes as these are required under the city bylaws.
 
Flywheel said:
I used to lease a lot from the COT in the downtown core. "Parking without consent of owner" was at least $60 IIRC and bumped up to $80 before I left several years ago. The PEOs used hand-held printers for the tickets. No handwriting except for the signature, I think. Also going on memory, the tickets were printed on a type of water/tear resistant material. Not sure if plastic or specially coated paper. It could be the lot owner scaring off turkeys with fake tickets, hard to say. In one case when a PEOs ticketed a client of mine (I hadn't called their dispatcher, so a bit mysterious), I had to provide a signed letter indicating consent and a copy of the parking license for the trial. The prosecutor was VERY surprised at that and reluctantly dismissed the ticket. So if you don't have the goods and the ticket is real, you are boned. No need for the lot owner to show.
Click to expand...

The private MLEO companies are still using the handwritten City of Toronto tickets.
As the actual City Officers are now using the handheld computers which download directly into the City's computer, there are only a few data entry ops who are still entering the handwritten tags manually.
This is why it can take up to 10 days for a handwritten tag to show up on the website.
 
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So, brief update on this thread. I decided to fight the "park on private property without permission" $30 ticket, issued by the private parking enforcement company through the City of Toronto.

It's not an issue of money; I was genuinely curious to see what the private company rep. would say, at trial. Well, nobody showed up, so the ticket was withdrawn. My ticket was one of a number of private property tickets thrown out. I guess there's not much enforcement for these kinds of tickets?

The one private parking enforcement person who showed up on another matter, ended up making a mistake (i.e. had someone charged who had permission to park there) so they threw his ticket as well. It felt like amateur hour, at the people's court.

Meanwhile, the ppl who had obvious language difficulties were pleading guilty to whatever offence was thrown at them and requesting 12 months to pay $60 tickets. Jeez :/
 
The private companies who issue City tickets don't pay very well, so there is a large turnover.
It is likely the person who wrote the ticket no longer works for that company.
It is just as likely they work a different shift than the court time and the company didn't want to pay them overtime to go to court.
 
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